I would like to see the NBAA change the payout from every four spots to every seven or eight, or something. It don't make sense to pay back less than the entry fee ,IMO . I'm sure there's a reason for the way they do things, but I think first second and third should get the brunt of the money and the following two three spots could get their entry fee back or gift certificate,s or something. If you pay one hundred dollar's to enter a tournament , what sense doe's it make to "win" sixty dollar's for seventh? Just thinking out loud here , not trying to start trouble , just BOOOOOREEED! Am I alone on this???
this seems to come up every winter. i think NBAA even printed there payout schedule last year because there was so much discussion.. the weeknights pay 1 place for every 5 entries. not sure about the weekends. i got 29.00 on a couple weeknight events for a 42.00 entry fee. i like there system since you are not going to get rich on a weeknight series so it is good to spread it around a little.
The KLBA boys pay 100% so i know there payout is better. when they move to Cass Lake i will be in with them.
Yeah, I like it too. Unless you fish a lot of the weekend events, your probably fishing more for the comradarie and fun of it rather than the money. So, if you get some of your money back, that makes if more affordable for more of the fishermen, which means more fishermen, etc.
I agree that your not going to get rich fish NBAA. It,s all about getting out and meeting different people, being out on the lake and getting away from the hussel bussel of every day stuff. Besides how much money did you make bowling this winter?
hey cr tough luck with that one,best thing to do is find a different tourney league to fish,it's not the 1 in 5 or 1 in 7 that will change a hole lot it's the 65% pay at the ramp my friend that hurts.(u guys might not be trying to get rich but JIM is)
That's a cheap shot at Jim, but I guess your entitled to it. I can tell you Jim is not getting rich, but he does make some money in this business. It is easy to think these organizations just run on their own, with no employee costs or expenses and all the money should go back to the anglers, but that is not reality.
The thing is everyone knows what they are getting when they fish these events. And this is not a three or four circuit organization. NBAA has continued to grow every year and continue to do so. Not everything they do is perfect, but I have seen a couple other organizations fold in the past few years which shows this is not an easy business to sustain. They have tried new things that have been successful and some things that were a flop. At least they try new things based on what they hear from us, the anglers.
They truly want to make it a friendly place for anglers to fish tournaments. Payback is what it is. 65% and spread out to give that chance for anglers to make something while remaining competitive. Nothings better to watch than a father and son team finish 4th or 5th and get a small check. The kid lights up. That is what we strive for at the NBAA.
I hope everyone enjoys the season and I can't wait for the cold weather to leave.
Quote from: dartag on January 22, 2009, 05:11:59 PM
this seems to come up every winter. i think NBAA even printed there payout schedule last year because there was so much discussion.. the weeknights pay 1 place for every 5 entries. not sure about the weekends. i got 29.00 on a couple weeknight events for a 42.00 entry fee. i like there system since you are not going to get rich on a weeknight series so it is good to spread it around a little.
That's why they do it - seems to be the most popular choice for the bulk of the anglers who provide feedback to NBAA.
It is always good to state your opinion though. Things can sometimes change or be adjusted if a consensus appears, or at least it might give you a chance to make your own choices as to what you fish and don't.
As far as anyone getting rich, it is not happening at the moment for most businesses. Times are tough and challenging. Many businesses are on a very thin edge when it comes to staying open. I always want to say go try to do it yourself and see how it is to walk in someone elses' shoes. Things are different coming from the perspective of running a business than they are from being a consumer or customer.
NBAA is a large circuit with a ton of directors and even real employees. The money has to come from somewhere and I can tell you there are not many companies lining up to give anyone dollars at this time. Tough to get even in the best of times.
I used to run tournaments, so I have my own smaller perspective from the 'other shoe' on all the comments, complaints and perceptions that are often stated on various message boards and boat ramps. I promise you (meaning everyone) that until you've been on the 'running the tournaments' side, you will never truly be able to appreciate what is involved and what it takes to run a circuit that grows and lasts for a large number of participants.
I'm not saying anyone can't state their opinions (see above), but please try to consider what it is like from the opposite side of the coin too when doing so. The circuits that last are businesses run to not lose money. You can see, if you look, even the really big circuits are cutting back quite a bit to stay viable.
I didn't mean to bash the NBAA, and realize that it is a business . I also enjoy the camaraderie and appreciate the fact that there's a tournament to fish almost every day of the week. I just think that the payouts could be changed for the better .
I didn't take your opinion as bashing. I don't think anyone else did.
Quote from: CR on January 22, 2009, 11:47:02 AM
I would like to see the NBAA change the payout from every four spots to every seven or eight, or something. It don't make sense to pay back less than the entry fee ,IMO . I'm sure there's a reason for the way they do things, but I think first second and third should get the brunt of the money and the following two three spots could get their entry fee back or gift certificate,s or something. If you pay one hundred dollar's to enter a tournament , what sense doe's it make to "win" sixty dollar's for seventh? Just thinking out loud here , not trying to start trouble , just BOOOOOREEED! Am I alone on this???
Quote from: gr@ssmonkey on January 25, 2009, 07:29:23 PM
hey cr tough luck with that one,best thing to do is find a different tourney league to fish,it's not the 1 in 5 or 1 in 7 that will change a hole lot it's the 65% pay at the ramp my friend that hurts.(u guys might not be trying to get rich but JIM is)
I put this on another site for those of you complainers.
EVERYONE SHOULD READ THIS AND CHECK IT OUT FOR THEMSELVES.
This is why you should always do your own investigating.
NBAA pays out 70% at the ramp,this is taken right off of the payout sheet in the book( 20boats $35entree $490 payed out= 70% on the nose). They keep a percentage for the classic which you dont have to pay to go to, and yes they keep out some to run their buisness. They did have their payout up last year and it was in their magazine(which costs money) Its not up on their website now but Im sure they will put it back up.
BBT payout is 65.882353% at the ramp on Muskegon1 since they dont post their payout schedule ahead of time (or I couldnt find it) I added up the total amount payed out which was $5600 and there were 85 boats fishing at $100 entree, they keep a percentage for the classic and you dont have to pay to get in to it either.
Shoreline payout is 66.6666% at the ramp again they do not post their payout either ahead of time so I added up what they say on their rules. I also added up their payout on cadillac and it came to 63.492063. Not sure why that was maybe last year the entree wasnt as much or something..They also keep a percentage for the classic and I cant find if you have to pay to be in classic but It doesnt look like it.
The BFL payout is 74.358974% at the ramp. They do post their payout based on 200 boats. Of course we arent going to see that many boats around here.
Bassmaster weekend payout is 74.358974% at the ramp. They post their payout based on 200 boats. Of course we arent going to see that many boats around here.
These are not including big bass.
As you can see there is a pattern here. It is just around 70%. Obviousley this is what each tournament curcuit has to have to operate. For any big organization to operate it must have funds. Those funds come from us anglers. If there are people out there that want to do all of this for nothing I say go for it. For all of you complainers out there, I say try running all of these tournaments or anything else and see if you wouldnt want to be paid for a service. And thats what it is a service..
Woooohoooo!
The annual "tournament payout thread" is here!
The annual "tournament payout thread" is here!
That must mean that spring will be here soon.
Besides Basspro sent me a Spring Angler 2009 catalog, so I know it must be true.
If I read the post right, he wasn't complaining about the % of payback, but the allocation of that payout. The thought is (not that I subscribe to it) that maybe it should be more top-heavy and not pay down so many places. There is some logic to that rationale. However, like I mentioned before, since no one is probably going to get rich from these tourneys, I think it makes sense to give more people back some of their money, while keeping the top couple spots paying well, and keep everyone playing. It is up to each individual whether they fish a particular tourney or not. So, if you sign up for it, don't complain about it. If you want it changed, contact the appropriate people off-line (much like most of my bass end up) and have your discussion. Otherwise, game on! Spring is almost here...now when do these 0 degree days end?!
Thanks for all the research though. Could we get payback by place as a % of the entry fee?
I don't fish nbaa that much anymore outside of the Detroit Open. With the membership and the payout schedule I can't justify the expense unless I plan on fishing the classic. I would also like to see the top get paid more, but I understand that the deep payout brings guys back. I would like to fish for more money via a higher entry fee or see some type of an option pot going to the winners. I've been fishing the local "fruit jar" tournaments the last 2 years and have made out much better on the money end. I don't think there is much to argue about this year, NBAA has posted their payout schedule and it is what it is.
-Matt
what Fruit Jar tournys do you fish. I know about the Kent Lake tuesdays. i think there is one on White Lake in Highland but not sure what night. are there others in the area.??
i enjoy NBAA because i can fish the lakes i like. i never seem to fish enough events to make the championships.
Fruit Jar??? Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Why you gotta call us Fruit Jar??? We are an elite group of anglers ranging anywhere from 4-14 boats who are dedicated to cracking an 3 fish limit of 12 lbs or better. it will be done. oh yes, it will be done!!!
;D
McCarter himself :-\'
Did he mean Fruit Cake? :-*
Quote from: dartag on January 28, 2009, 04:47:51 PM
what Fruit Jar tournys do you fish. I know about the Kent Lake tuesdays. i think there is one on White Lake in Highland but not sure what night. are there others in the area.??
i enjoy NBAA because i can fish the lakes i like. i never seem to fish enough events to make the championships.
There is one on Pontiac out of seligs landing, I think it's thursday night. Best way to do it though is to get a small group of guys and just do $20-50 a boat winner take all.
-Matt
Quote from: gr@ssmonkey on January 25, 2009, 07:29:23 PM
hey cr tough luck with that one,best thing to do is find a different tourney league to fish,it's not the 1 in 5 or 1 in 7 that will change a hole lot it's the 65% pay at the ramp my friend that hurts.(u guys might not be trying to get rich but JIM is)
I enjoy reading stuff from guys like this one. He who knows not what goes on must keep mouth shut.....lol
Website...cost money. Classic that you do not pay for..cost money. Employees...cost money. Magazine..cost money. The prizes that everyone thinks they get for free....COST MONEY...duh. Boats...cost money. Overhead of storage...heating electricity...cost money. Upkeep of NBAA vehicles(gas, insurance, license fees)..cost money. Paper products..the flyers and the printed out schedules at the shows...cost money. Shall I go on? See these are things that NO ONE thinks about.
Ask CATT how much it cost to run a trail that paid back 90% IT COST MONEY PPL....use your heads and think about it.
Now, back to the real question here:
The payback is paidout this way, cause it was thought that it would be better to get something than nothing at all. I can not believe that someone would be upset that they won 1/2 their money back. That is less money you would have to put into the next tournament, which makes it cost only 1/2 the next time, cause you already thought about it ALL being paid the 1st time.
Works for me. ;D
McCarter... your picture is on the LABEL of the Fruit Jar :o ;D
And the box of Froot Loops.
you can all come fish my weeknight league. same entry fees & 100% payout at the ramp. Not A fruitcake league either, more of a beer and peanuts league. ;D
Noone is going to get rich fishing NBAA. The entry fees are just too low. This will be my fourth year with NBAA. It's all about fishing, having fun, and meeting new friends.Oh, and maybe winning a little cash. Good luck to all this year!
That's it exactly. Way to spell it out!
did u get all of that cr,the BIG list of things that your money goes to pay for "JUST TO FISH A FUN AFTER WORK TOURNEY",employees,vans,web site,employees,wait i all ready said that,employees?yep u heard him right employees just so u can add up all 8 boats weight.On the other side of the coin,heydude is offering a fun after work tourney that pays 100%,wow how do u do it,your going to go broke.There out there cr you just have to look for them this is a great site for that.BBT has 3 open tourneys that are 90% pay back,wabasis lake has a gander mountain tourney on wed. nights thats 100%- classic fund.hope u have fun this year cr,see u on the water!!!!!!!
NBAA is a great tournament trail and it will always be a great trail for the anglers! 3 boats at the classic! What I do have to add on the math someone did is in BBT Russ is the BIG WINNER each and every tournament! Add up the money that is in the classic. If you fish the 5 tournament trail and base it off the 1st Muskegon event and BBT pockets 7275 after classic payout plus 90 members at 40 bucks each thats 3600 more bucks. Then think about the open tournaments they run and think about how much they make for putting on those events in relation the number of events. I think more should go back to the payout myself. I mean he says a hat that is given to him by Triton is part of the payout percentage that counts for like 15 bucks each, good business technique but a HUGE HUGE lie when it comes to payout.
There are lots of 100% payback tournaments around here. IT is mostly just for fun though in ths area. No one is out to make a living, just have a bunch of fun with their buddies. There are lots of times we all discuss where we are going to start so we don't get on top of each other. It's a ball. I can;t believe some of the stories I hear about some of these. I can tell you dude's tournaments are fun, as are pangas, as are many more we have that aren't on here. I like to make money, too, but y'all ought to try fishing tournaments for fun sometime.
Yeah agreed it's a lot of fun fishing when you throw in about 40 bucks a team and go to have a good time but when you start putting $100 + into a tournament it has a little bit of a different intention. This one league we fish is a bunch of good ole boys from my area, no life jackets, etc just fun no shirts most of the time either by someone lol it draws about 15-25 boats every monday and entry is 20 bucks a person, so 40 for a team or 20 if you go in alone. Payback is 100% cash so it is amazing money but we are all in it for the FUN! Anyone in SW Michigan should check it out, its the Monday Night Liars League, and they will fish as long into the fall as you want to keep coming.
I like a particular analogy when people start talking about making money bass fishing. A few gold miners in the California and Klondike strikes got rich, many more got quite wealthy catering to the needs of the miners. If you want to make money fishing you need to think of ways to cater to the needs of anglers. Just my humble opinion
I still dont get what fruit jar means. But then i am kinda slow. Would someone please tell me what this term means so i will know to tell new members if they are joining a fruit jar or fruit cake, or fruit loop or fruity pebble, or frosted flake tournament group??
McFruitsy himself :-\'
I think the term refers to putting the kitty into a fruit jar and winner takes all . I don't think it was meant to be derogatory in any way, more so just a group of people getting together, putting twenty dollars each into the fruit jar, or in your case your pocket, until a winner is determined and payed out. Or as Martha would say "Its a good thing". Funny how these topics take on a life of their own. I thought everyone would agree that the payouts in the NBAA should be changed to 1 in 8 instead of 1 in 5, but the majority seemed to like the current set-up, or wanted to talk about the % of the payouts, something else entirely.
So true Dan. The stockbroker makes money much more consistently than the stock buyer.
Regardless, if you've never run a large tournament circuit, I don't think it is very fair to complain about the compensation someone might get from doing so. No one is getting rich from running tournaments in Michigan. I'm real confident in saying that. Costs are always higher than most people allow, and the minute you add in time, the amount of money 'made' goes down in a hurry.
Quote from: CR on February 09, 2009, 01:50:22 PM
I think the term refers to putting the kitty into a fruit jar and winner takes all . I don't think it was meant to be derogatory in any way, more so just a group of people getting together, putting twenty dollars each into the fruit jar, or in your case your pocket, until a winner is determined and payed out. Or as Martha would say "Its a good thing". Funny how these topics take on a life of their own. I thought everyone would agree that the payouts in the NBAA should be changed to 1 in 8 instead of 1 in 5, but the majority seemed to like the current set-up, or wanted to talk about the % of the payouts, something else entirely.
I didnt take any offense but for the life of me i couldnt figure out what it meant so i was just curious.
I will say this, if we had as many guys as NBAA and if we were as fancy shmancy as them, we would have no choice but to pay back less and charge member fees and all that junk. I co ran the ABA for a few years and i know how much time and effort goes into running any tournament trail. And there is a ton of out of pocket money involved as well. Hats off to all directors because that is not an easy job.
I dont fish the NBAA but i used to and it is very well ran, all 3 divisions i fished in. But i do understand why people dont fish them too. It all comes to preference. Lord knows there are plenty of options to choose from.
McCarter himself :-\'