DNR Complaint

[Eric]

I got an email yesterday from Jay of the DNR Plainwell office.  He received a complaint regarding a July 24 tournament on the Grand.  The complainant was an angler/citizen on Spring lake who complained that the tournament was taking fish from the lake and releasing them into the river.  The citizen hasn't been able to catch fish in that area since.  Jay told him that since it was part of the same river system, it was legal to do that.  He told the citizen, and wanted me to remind everyone, that it is not legal to move fish from one body of water to another.  Another words, it is still illegal to leave the Grand and run to Muskegon and bring fish back.  He suggested catch and immeidate release style tournaments to reduce fish relocation and displacement.  If nothing else, please be aware that tournaments continue to be scrutinized by the public, often in ways that we never even though of, like I can't catch fish now that there has been a tournament here.

[motocross269]

I have never heard of such a thing...As long as the bodies of water share the same water and are accessible ....That would be like saying you can't run from LSC to Erie...

Tournament anglers have been running up and down the west coast fishing different lakes and bringing fish in to weigh as long as there have been tournaments in Michigan..

There are always a few uneducated guys with nothing better to do than stir the pot..Like the guy on Spring Lake...

[LennyB]

I here this complaint about tournaments ruining the fishing often. The other big one is the weeds being killed also ruins the fishing. I think both complaints are true to a degree.

As far as the tournaments, anytime you punch a hole in a fish, take it out of it's environment for an extended time, release it into a different water temperature, you are going to have a mortality rate. I like fishing tournaments as well as anyone but tournaments do have an effect on the current fish population, however, bass are vary resilient and are well capable of replenishing their populations. My advice to the complainers is to fish the not so obvious stuff that is sure to be pounded by everyone, tournament and non tournament guys alike.

I know some guys that are non tournament guys and they constantly blame tournaments for them not catching fish were they use to. The area is a community hole on lake Erie that use to hold an enormous amount of smallies in the 80's and 90's. We use to catch 50+ fish , and big ones, just about every trip year round. This same area for the most part is a sliver of what it use to be and this is their reasoning to blame the tournament guys. My argument is that if this is the case why are they not still catching the under sized ones.  I think the real culprit is an environmental change has taken place. The reason they are not catching them were they use to is because what ever use to draw them there is not there any more. The clearer water due to the zebra mussels along with changing water levels, commercial fishing pressure which nets them by the thousands, probably has a lot greater impact than a dozen guys taking a 60 fish a few times a year.

On the inland lakes the "catch and keep and then release" seems like it would have more of an impact on the quality of the fishery do to the size and number of fish. There is a lake in Northern Michigan that was closed to tournament angling until just a few years ago and I can attest to that lake definitely being well below were it use to.  I have also seen small inland lakes cleaned out of quality fish when a meat hunter took up residency on the lake. There is a lake in Northern Michigan that is under 200 acres and use to be loaded with giant smallies (an honest population of 7 pound fish) and it was like that for years. A few years back I went there to bed fish and a local meat hunter had a stringer full of them and he said he did it every day during the spawn as he pointed to all the heads he had nailed to his shed. That lake has never been the same since. Hopefully the guy moves on and the lake rebounds. As long as the food chain remains as good as it was, it should come back to what it was.

Another example is Belleville. When was the last time you went there and caught a 15 to 18 pound bag. I haven't been there in years but we use to see catches like that reasonably consistently years back. It was great for both largemouth and smallmouth. That lake gets a lot of tournament pressure know. What are the weights coming in now? Has the tournaments, meat hunters, or eco system effected it?

Just my thoughts on "blaming tournament guys" for some people not being able to catch fish.

[Team houston]

Belleville gets a ton of meat fisherman.

[Skip Johnson]

There's no way it can be illegal to release fish in a connected body of water wether it be a mile or 100 miles apart connected is conected, everyone of us has the right to KEEP 5 bass over 14" per day, if we CHOOSE to release our 5 bass that's great for the fishery and should not be an issue....as long as the bodies of water are connected!
Id like to see a judge try that case 

[Frank]

here are a couple more sides to this.

Pontiac Lake.  10-15 years ago it was hard to cash a check with a 15 pound bag.  3 years ago a 9 pound bag was money.  this year its taking more and more weight to win.  I think that there are more tournaments out there now.  I also think the catfish have a lot to do with bass populations.
White Lake, Oakland County.  My sister and nephew fed a 4lb bass under their dock for 2 years.  they have caught it, as have I.  a couple of times someone would come by in a tournament,  we asked that if they caught it they bring it back after weigh in.  They actaully did.  It isnt there any more.  could be because he was released on the other side of the lake.  could be he just died.

Frank

[djkimmel]

I 'debated' Jay once publicly at one of the season meetings over some misguided 'logic' in that flawed process and 'paper.' Though the last time or two we talked he was a little more realistic in his thinking about things like a bass season.

Part of the problem is the MDNR gets hammered every time someone thinks the fishing (or hunting) isn't as good as it 'should' be... even someone who lives on a lake that systematically attacks good fish habitat year after year turning a once super productive system into a less productive mud hole (Spring Lake) and is therefore a part of the problem.

Another part of the problem I have warned about for something like 30 years is that we are and will be very visible, making us a very easy target for anything along these lines. Some people are only capable and/or willing to make the simplest connections meaning that we are just going to get blamed for things real or imagined. (Which is why setting a good example and being on our best behavior all the time is important in my opinion.)

I got in the middle of a big mess a long, long time ago when I suggested we close Lake Michigan to running. I didn't have much support and angered a lot of people but I thought it might simplify and help continue the enjoyment of our sport in a state where the sport is not considered very valuable or desirable by some people. I was only doing what I thought would help at the time. Though more people are interested in it now, we have seen time and again that it is still a hot topic for many people.

I guess if a large number of complaints were received, or an 'influential/determined person got behind an attempt, 'transporting' bass from lake to lake could be stopped one way or another. It is something we should at least consider, discuss and maybe look for solutions too?

I'm not saying close Lake Michigan or transport bass - which might also get someone in trouble on the wrong day - but even if we could prove some of the bass make it back and/or get a legal definition stating that since the lakes are all accessible by boat they are considered attached, some people will still complain.

Of course, some people would complain, as the saying goes, if you hanged them with an old rope! And some public people are sympathetic and/or biased just enough to make is seem like there's fire where there's not really any smoke too.

And we could just all keep our 5 bass... but we know we at least care enough to not do that!

[djkimmel]

So... if this is just one person complaining, then okay. Some people will just complain. If it's 100 people complaining (I do hear about complaints from Mona Lake fairly often), then maybe we should look at the topic a little harder. And lets not be completely unprepared if someone influential or determined starts to hammer away at this.

Eric, if you contact Jay about this, ask him if he informed the complainer that their overaggressive weed treatment programs probably, truthfully have more negative impact on bass than anything we could do. If not, then he should have a discussion about bass biology and habitat with these types of persons first before he forwards one complaint to any of us. This cannot be a one way transfer of information to do anyone any good.

[Eric]

The book says:

"A person who catches fish in a lake or a Great Lake shall not release
those fish alive in any public waters of the state if those fish are listed as Susceptible Fish Species, except that those fish may be released alive in that lake, or that Great Lake, or in a connecting body of water to that lake, or that Great Lake, so long as those fish can freely move between the original location of capture and the location of release. This provision does not apply to baitfish."

I sent this to Jay and said I think it is Ok to catch fish in Muskegon and release them in teh Grand since they can freely move back and forth.

[djkimmel]

They have done studies in the past that has shown some bass moving as far as the edge of Saginaw Bay down into Lake St. Clair. Some bass live in a small area and some bass do some traveling.

There seems to be some evidence that bass caught in White Lake and taken to Muskegon for weigh in have made it back to White Lake and caught again. Not much in the way of those kinds of studies here since bass generally take care of themselves if they have clean water, forage and habitat (i.e. quit killing off all the weeds).

[FishermanJohn]

This is all based on various articles I have read printed in In-Fisherman.  the studies I have read have shown that actual tournament mortality is a low, acceptable limit with proper fish handling, livewell management, and weigh-in process.

Another study that I read was that hours of angling pressure, regardless of catch rate and/or harvest makes the fish more wary and harder to catch.  I imagine that on many tournament lakes this plays a greater role in "catchability" of fish rather than actual tournament mortality. 

In terms of fish location, I agree that taking a fish from Muskegon and releasing it in the Grand River is legit - both bodies are connected with free access.  Same goes if the fish were released in Lake Michigan, for example.  Tagging data for walleyes and smallmouth bass show that they can move over 100 miles in the course of a season.