When fizzing doesnt work

[McCarter]

I know this is a touchy subject.  Some guys swear by it and others wont do it under any circumstances.  I do it.  Anytime i am fishing in deep water, i fiz the fish i catch if they look bloated or wont stay down in the livewell.  I have always had great success with fixing either of these both of these problems.  However, this past Saturday we had our ABA St Clair River tournament and i could not get my fish to stay down in the livewell.  I fizzed all of them as i caught them and they release air, but would not stay down in the livewell.  I struggled with them all day.  I had my pumps running constantly and added Rejuvenade as needed.  No results. 

At the weigh in i had one fish that was very very dead.  And 2 others that didnt look like they were going to make it too much longer.  I weighed them right away and got them back out to the channel.  Nothing but floaters.  I retreived them and fizzed them again, put them in fresh water with more Rejuvenade and gave them another couple minutes.  My second attempt to get them down was a bust.

Next, i had the task of taking care of everyone elses fish.  They loaded my boat with 30+ fish at a time.  I took them to the channel and took my time with each fish, fizzing the ones that needed it and giving all of them fresh, treated water.  Again, nothing but floaters.  I think i had 3 fish out of probably 70 or more that went down and stay down.

By the end, it looked like the smallmouth halocaust.  There was a pile of fish floating down the channel all struggling to get down, but floating right back up.  I know some of you might be thinking that i did not fiz them the right way, but im telling ou right now i know how to fiz.  i have fizzed hundreds of fish succesfully.  Jose Garza and I fizzed fish from ABA and another club from Indiana last year over the course of 2 days with no problems.  All the fish i fizzed on Saturday release air.  I  know i got them but it wasnt working.

Later, i talked to a few friends who fish the NBAA tournament, and they confirmed the same problems.  They also had many floaters and dead fish.  I noticed that a very high percentage of the fish i handled had large sores on the corners of their mouths.  I dont know if this might have had anything to do with the problems i had fixing the fish, but it did strike me as odd.

So here is my question.  What do you do when fizing doesnt work?  ANd has anyone else ever had this problem?  I am looking for any input i can get becuase i was sick to my stomach after seeing that many fish expire. 

PB himself

[bcbasser]

Some of the p[problems that you experienced may not have been from the fizzing....alot could have to do with the heat....these fish are taken from deeper water where the temps are much cooler.....the intense heat and increased surface and live well temps shock the mess out of these fish!!!! Keeping our live wells cool with alittle ice does not hurt either!!! I talked with a guy at lake champlain who uses a 2 oz weight that he puts in the fishes mouth/throat....the weight is tied to a long string....he put the fish in the water and let the weight take the fish to the bottom slowly and then pulls up on the weight that pulls out of the fishes mouth....this gets them down to cooler waters and helps them adapt to the changing pressures...I tried it and it does work....just my .2cents!!! Obvoiously... this would take alot of time if you are working the release boat!!! But you could do it with the toads!!!

[Dan]

 I have a buddy that says he clips weights like those you use for ice fishing on both of the fins on the underside of the smallies while there are in his livewell. Keeps the fish upright. He also uses ice. My .02 worth.  I have been to two tournaments on St. Clare when it has been hot where the fish kill was huge. If ice doesn't cut down the mortality then we have to think about avoiding the hot weather for tournaments.

[nitroderrek]

dan,

our season for keep doesn't start until the 3rd sat in june, it is already 80's by then.... the only time for a tournament would be the end of sept, and october...  more reason to open the season earlier, when there would be less strain on the fish to catch (weigh them in) and release them in may instead of august. 

i was in the river last week, i caught a 4.6 lb smallie, had it out of the water only long enought to take the hook out and weigh it very quickly, and let it go... it swam out of sight,, 10 minutes later, on the same drift, the bass came up to the surface about 20 feet from the boat splashing around... i got a hold of it, it wasn't bloated, so it didn't need to be fizzed, but it just sat on the surface.... got it to go down for a couple more minutes, but came back to the surface... put it in my livewell with please release me.. with no luck... the fish died, and i took it home... there was nothing i could do to save that fish, and it was release back into the wild immediately, and still died.... just catching the fish alone, even throat hooking them, could kill them. so we just have to live with some of that, or just not fish.  i try 110% to keep my fish alive, but sometimes there is just nothing you can do.  nitroderrek

[gnewski5]

If you are constantly catching smallies I think the best thing's you can do is rig up a O2 bottle to bubble into your livewells, and keep the water temp cooler. I take 20 oz. water bottles frozen and add them thru the day. That way your not adding the chemicals from the ice melting into your livewells. I also split the fish up. Half in the front livewell,  half in the back livewell. Only fizz if they won't stay down.

The darn smallies are just more sensitive than the largemouths. Sometimes its like you could fill your livewells with the worst carp water you can find and the largies are fine all day long. The smallies you better be tending to all day long, or your going to lose them.

[cameraguy]

Freezing water in 20 oz. bottles is a great idea.  They're compact and a good way to keep your beverages cold without having to buy ice.  I'll have to start doing that (if I ever get back to fishing more tournaments). 

What kind of boat do you have that has a front livewell? 

[DennisB.]

I've seen the 2 oz. weight in the mouth trick done one time and it worked great but it wasn't as hot as it has been latley. shock from the water to air temp can be dramaitic when its close to a hundred degrees outside. I have seen one fish get fizzed but would never attempt it myself untill I get some more time under my belt. I don't tournament fish yet but I will when I get a little more comfortable.

[gnewski5]

cameraguy,

I'm running a Alumacraft Pantom 185 fish and ski. I wanted the "v" hull for the big waters, plus I have seating for 5. (i've got 3 kids, so the whole family can get out on the water). Yet it still has nice sized casting decks front and back.

I started freezing the bottles because a whole bag of ice is too much to put in the livewell. Once you open the bag, what do you do with the rest of the ice? Like you said, saves on buying ice too. Just take the bottles out and refreeze them. It also works good in the perch cooler!

[djkimmel]

A number of important issues here and a topic we all need to understand more. If a bass is caught deep and the problem is pressure related, the bass needs to be fizzed right away, not potentially hours later. By then, any internal damage that is caused has long been done and it is too later to fizz at the weighin unless the bass was just caught. Simple physiology.

Fizzing bass that don't need it is also bad. Puts the bass at greater risk for unnecessary internal damage and infection. Fizzing should not be done with shared needles. We may do more harm than good in the end. We have to STOP saying it's better than nothing because that isn't necessarily true.

Anglers need to take care of their bass long before the tournament officials get them. So we need to be responsible to learn what it takes to lessen our impact on the bass. If the handling and treatment during the day has been poor enough, there will be nothing tournament officials can do.

What is described sounds much more than just a pressure problem. It sounds like general stress reaction. It could definitely be temperature related.

There will be some mortality no matter what we do, but lets keep talking about it and learn all we can to minimize the impact, and to show, by example, how other bass tournament anglers can do their part to help out.

Bass do not do well (many fish are this way) with water temp changes greater than 10 degrees. An instant lasting change of 10 degrees F or more can shock a bass enough to kill them according to studies I've read. Putting a bass from warm water into a livewell iced down too cold can harm the bass as much as putting a bass from cold water into warm water.

Moderate tempature control is important. Oxygen levels are important - warm water holds less oxygen than colder water. Water exchange during periods of high stress is important.

Even length of time in the livewell affects survival. A number of studies in the past have shown that bass in the livewell more than 6 hours have dramatically decreased survival odds - it seems to be a magic number for survival - with all other things being the same. We all like to catch a good catch first thing and the bigger tournaments will probably continue to be 8 hours, so the best thing for this information is to be aware and take extra precaution for bass that have been in your livewell and extended period of time.

Lets keep talking...

[Bender]

Can someone explain what exactly fizzing is? I looked around here and on bassresource but couldn't find anything. From the jist of this discussion it does not sound like something I will try, but I would like to know more about the procedure.

[bshaner]

I realize this is an ad, but it is not meant to be.  It is as clear and concise an explanation that I could find.  Again, I'm not promoting Iovino, just giving you a pretty good piece of information.

http://www.iovino.com/fizzkit.htm

B

[Cheetam]

Here's some info:

http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/MNR/pubs/Fizzing.pdf

[bshaner]

I read that one too.  Very good document but I didnt want to give him information overload    

I realize the bladder will be bloated but is it just me or do some of those illustrations on needle insertion appear to be nowhere near the bladder??

[Vic Cerabone]

I'm not sure what was going on with those fish PB.

I am one of guys in favor fissing of fish caught deep.  I've been doing it for a couple of years now.  I know that while under my care, fish that are fissed do much better than those that are not.  Fissing must happen shortly after the fish are caught.  Having somebody else do it at the weigh-in is useless IMHO.

In addition to fissing, I am using Rejuvinade, and lot's of ice over the course of a day.  In the three tournament days I fished last week we used six bags of ice per day.  The ice is not used all at once, but rather to maintain livewell temps so they are slightly below the surface temp (10 deg.)

The correct fissing needle is 18ga 1.5" long.  These are very cheap at Tractor Supply Company (TSC) or any other feed/vet supply store.  I fish nearly every open on LSC, including the remaining NBAA event.  I'd be glad to give anybody my rundown of how I fiss.  I run a black and white Ranger (which is for sale ).

Vic