Finding the fish???

[Skulley]

I've learned over the years that you're much better at something if you figure it out by yourself but sometimes it can be very frustrating too. Sometimes my problem is if say a certain spot looks good but it produces no fish. Does that mean the spot is no good or that spot for that time of year is no good or did I just use the wrong bait and/or presentation? I'm one of those people that usually needs an answer to the question why and I don't know the answer...............why didn't we catch any fish there besides the usual answer you get from guys.............they weren't biting. I guess what I'm really looking for help on is the answers to the post fishing questions I have. Once I can start to answer those then I can figure things out better on my own and hopefully start to get better.

Just because you didn't catch fish on a spot doesn't mean that the spot is no good.  There are always resident fish on spots.  In other words, they live there.  I don't believe in the "they weren't biting" phrase.  If they are there, they will bite.  If they are not there, then no bites.  You will see fish on your graph if you have it set up correctly.  Be confident in your graph and you will become more confident in your baits.  I run my graph in manual.  I keep the Fish ID off so that I see arches which are gamefish.  I have seen where having the Fish ID on and going over leaves in the fall mark fish.  Fish ID lies.  Running with it off is more honest.  On the Belle Hump Monday I saw arches, meaning there were fish there and as a result I caught fish there.  Keeping it simple goes a long way.

On Erie or LSC,I pretty much go with tubes and drop-shots,that's it.Although learning new techniques can be a good thing,I'll stick with what I'm good at and leave it at that.I don't ever C-rig,walk the dog with Spooks,yo-yo lipless baits,throw swim baits,or fish shakey heads in tournaments.

On Erie and St. Clair I have learned that everything in your arsenal can work.  Confidence is built by practicing with these baits and then in a tournament having the confidence to throw them and catch fish on them.  On Erie Sunday in a club tournament, I caught fish on tubes, cranks, and traps.  Also had several on a spinnerbait.  But I have practiced out there with those baits.  So because I have practiced with them, I have built the confidence in them to catch fish in a tournament on them.  That goes a long way.  Practice, practice, practice.........and time on the water builds confidence in a bait or baits.  I have become more versatile by fishing in this manner.  Never be afraid to try something different.  If you don't your only limiting yourself.  Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.  Just my 2 cents.  

You will be a better angler being three dimensional rather than one dimensional.  In other words, throw three different baits rather than only one that you have always caught fish on.  I would rather lose by throwing many than do well by throwing only one because everytime out there should be an educational learning experience.  I learn something new every time out.  Approach fishing for bass in that manner be it smallies or bucketmouths and you WILL become better.


BD          

[Lightningboy]

From what you've described, and from looking at the DNR lake map, this looks like a very classic northern natural LM/bluegill lake.  Since there don't seem to be any others competitors to the LM, they are pretty much able to roam where they please.  Add in SM, walleye, big pike, you change the possible locations of bass.  A good SM population will often chase the LM off the deep weedline since SM tend to be a better open water predator.  There are only so many niches available in a lake, and most predators don't share well with others.   

Tannic acid is a common type of water in northern MI.  The watersheds drain through tree filled swamps, and causes the water to look like week tea.  The water ends up being clear but colored; a bit different from suspended silt.

Since bass can pretty much set up where they please, the best areas can change on a seasonal basis very quickly.  They'll all be shallow during spawning of course.  But right after spawn they will look for the first good feeding oportunity; that probably means bluegills in your lake.  Find where the BG spawn, and you'll slay them for about two weeks.

Summer patterns arrive as soon as the lake hits near max temp.  You'll find some bass on the flats, and a lot on the deep weedline.  I choose not to chase them on the flats if I can help it, since that's such a needle/haystack situation.  You need to drop your baits into holes on the flat when they're negative; when active a crank/rattlebait/spinnebait/buzzbait can be very effective.  It's just not that often they're that active.

The deep weedline is a reliable option.  But you need to identify the best sections of weedline.  You're looking for whatever is "different" on that weedline.  Could be a ragged edge, little "holes" in the edge, rocks or timber mixed in a spot or two, etc.  A small texas rig worm is a steady tool for the job.  If the edge is ragged, cast into the weeds some and drag it out.  If the edge is well defined, you'll need to "feed" line to the lure as the bait falls down the weed wall so it won't pendulum out from that bottom edge.  They'll often be at the base of the edge, or suspended a couple feet up from that bottom edge.  If you allow your bait to swing because of line tension on the fall, you'll miss fish.

If bass are active on that edge, a crank can be an awesome tool.  Not as often, but sometimes.  Often enough that you should check that option each time out.  A crank can sometimes trigger a bite other baits can't, especially bigger fish.

When you catch a bass, any size, set a waypoint.  If you've found one bass, there are probably more.  After a couple of days out you'll begin to "see" where the better sections of weedline are.  Then attack those areas from different angles.  I can't stress this enough; your bait will have the greatest chance of success when it crosses at a certain angle.  You need to find that angle. 

After you get a better feel for fish location, then make it a point to idle over those areas and take a good look with your sonar.  There is often a little something "different" about a prime spot.  Being able to identify what it is can lead you to similar spots.

But believe me, you will have to work for your fish.  18 boats on a 350 acre lake is very small; those bass are under a lot of pressure.  Weekend activity just adds to that.  You may have to choose more subtle presentations like a DS on that deep edge to get bit.

As the water cools, you'll see fishing improve.  Bass usually move up from deeper weedline areas onto the flats in early fall.  They're following the bait.  A good time to watch for this is when the water temp drops about 10 degrees from summer max.  Bass will be more active, and probably will be more willing to chase a bait.  Cranks & spinnerbaits really start to come into play then.

After the lake turns over, look for turns along that same deep edge, especially along flats with some leftover green weeds.  Similar to summer bass fishing, but at a slower pace with bulkier baits.  Jig & pig can be killer then.

Probably one of the biggest things you can do is keep notes on your time on the water.  Our memories are usually quite bad, a few notes on each day can really help you figure out some reliable patterns over time.

Sticking with this lake across a season will teach you a lot about bass behavior/movement.  They're usually easy to find & catch in spring.  Try to follow them as they move from that point throughout the season.

Pay attention to the pros too.  Any time you can check out how a pro attacks a certain situation can show you what each bait can be an effective tool for.

Realize that your learning curve will accelerate with increases in your success.  Seems like catching a few suddenly changes your game, and makes it easier to take it to the next level.  Like I said before, feel free to ask questions any time you like.

Of course, I could be full of it too & completely wrong...

[bassbuster]

We will work on spending more time finding out why certain points are better by identifying any special features they may have compared to other similar areas on the lake. I won't lie, last year I all but gave up on this lake because it kicked my @$$ every time I fished it. But I decided giving up won't make me a better fisherman so this year I decided to tough it out and fish it every week until I could consistently have what I thought was a good catch. Now for this lake and this tournament that sometimes may mean 3-4 fish but of course I'm always looking for 5.

Quick question....when you t rig a small work I generally use a "thin" senko and a 1/8th or smaller bullet sinker obviously depending on the conditions. Is this what your referring to??? Lately if I go with anything that drops too fast all I get to bite is the northerns.  That's also the reason I've been using the wacky rig so much lately.

Here's what I'm planning on doing for the next tournament. I lay 3 rods on the deck by me and I run a crankbait on one, my wacky on another and my t rigged small worm on another. This week I had a jig n pig instead of the small t rig on and so far the jig has been a mistake........gators every time.........again.  This allows me to run the crank around the points at least a few times plus I have my t rig to probe the deeper edge of the weedline too. And of course I can still throw my wacky up a little when I want to. I still have trouble getting a bigger bite which I'd like to figure out but at the same time I'm working on just getting a limit to start with.


Thanks for the input LB, I know I'm not anywhere near an expert but sometimes it's nice to have someone at least let you know you're headed in the right direction..........at least kinda sorta.

[Lightningboy]

I like a tungsten bullet weight to increase the feel, pegged with a rubber stop.  I'll go from 1/16 to 1/4 oz as is needed, but 1/8 is a workhorse choice.

For worms I'm down to only two lately.  Forgive the plug, but the Nemesis shakey worm is becoming a favorite of mine; I like how it stands up from bottom.  The other is the GYCB Kut-tail.  There's a billion color choices out there, but it's hard to go wrong with green pumpkin, watermelon, or black. 

Since you mention how common the pike bites are, they may be pushing bass off the deep weedline in a lot of areas.  If you can find enough quality bass, then putting up with the pike is just part of the game.  Otherwise, you may need to go back a little further into the weeds to find bass. 

Let's say you get a keeper on the deep weedline on the edge of a flat.  So try the area of weedline near that bite, but also try a little out onto the clean bottom, and back into the weed flat too.  The bass are there for a reason, whatever that item is may just overlap the deep edge.  Further exploring may help you identify the why. 

Maybe that keeper bass sat on the edge of the weedline, but that a small stretch has a harder bottom with a little bit of rock strewn about.  The actual hot spot may stretch 10 yards back into the weed bed; mr. bass that bit you was on the edge.  A little more exploring that area could produce a few more keepers, or a bigger bass.

Don't be afraid to poke around a spot.  Some of my best discoveries were made while getting out a snag; it forced me to get right on top of a spot.

[bassbuster]

I have used the shaky head style worm before on a jig head set up........what do you think of that as opposed to pegging a bullet weight t rig style.

[Lightningboy]

I like a shaky head whenever weeds aren't a problem.  Once you start hanging up too much, I reach for the T-rig.

Tungsten is worth the $$.  The feel is astounding compared to lead.  So much in fact, I found myself banging into rocks and thinking I had a bite when I first started using them.  Fluoro line can help a great deal too; it's denser than mono, and transmits feel better.

When you drag a bait, you really need to concentrate on what you're passing over.  The more info the better.  A blind man with a cane can tell you about the texture of the surface he's feeling with the cane; you need to treat your baits the same.

Also, quit worrying about feeling for bites.  With a sensitive system, bites will be obvious.  Concentrate on "weighing" line tension when you retrieve.  Many fish will take the bait, but not give a classic "tap".  Feel the resistance of the bait as you pull it, and learn to judge if the resistance feels dead like a weed, or slightly alive; that's a bass.  Using a scent product can really help with this.  I don't care if they smell it.  I want it to have an interesting taste & texture when they take it in their mouth.  I think it gives me a second or two more to get the hook set.

Again, that lake sounds like it gets a lot of pressure.  I bet your gonna find most bass bite pretty shy.

[bassbuster]

One other quick question............what size hook do you guys use with the t rig on the smaller worms like that??? I like the gamakstu hooks and I generally use the EWG offset worm hooks but is running a 1/0 too big for the smaller worms?? And where do you find the rubber stoppers for the weight??? I've always used a toothpick and broken it off to make the weight stick.

[Buckeye]

BB,

I think 1/0 is good for 4 inch worms, but you could always drop down in size as well.  As a stop on t-rigs, I used to use toothpicks, and then I used those rubber strips.  The toothpick was a headache and can cause fraying on the line, which would be a definite disadvantage if you are using fluoro.  The rubber strips were wasteful IMO.  You ended up throwing much of the stop away IMO.  I started using bobber stops from BPS.  You get 45 in a pack for $1.50.  No waste....  I think they come in red, black, and yellow, and you just pass the line through and thread them on the line.  Drop your weight on, and tie your hook, and you have a t-rig.  The stop will actually slide up the line when you set the hook, allowing the weight to come away from the fish and the hook.  Some people believe that is a major reason a fish can throw the hook.  I don't know about all that, but it seems to work well for me.

Once I started doing that, I leanred that Bill Lowen and Joe Thomas use it as well.  So, I figured I was onto something that would work.

Hope this helps!

Eric

[bassbuster]

Have you guys ever fished it without pegging the sinker??? I tried before but it didn't seem quite right and I never got a bite that way either...........of course I didn't try it for a very long time either and haven't done it since.

[TritonTR20]

I don't peg the sinker unless the cover is pretty heavy.

[bassmandan]

those sinker stops are amazing, i just started using them this year and im so glad i did and it doesnt seem they wear out.  they are cheap and they work great.

[Lightningboy]

I peg the sinker for two reasons. 

If the drop is more important than the retrieve, I peg it to keep the weight & bait as one unit.  The beaver is a great example; keep the weight against the bait and you get a wicked glide.

I always peg it in timber.  If the weight gets on the other side of a limb, you're in for bad news.

I don't think a 1/0 is too big.  I like a 1 with a 4 inch.  Don't be afraid to try different types of hooks until you find one you like.  Worms are very tolerant of a variety of hook styles.

One time I don't peg is if I'm using a shaking rig.  Put a glass bead between the weight & the hook.  Give it a shake when it's on bottom.  Sometimes it's a plus in weeds; not always, but once in a while.

[Buckeye]

I heard this a long time ago, and I use it now with a lot of success.  If you peg the weight close or directly to the bait, the bait will spiral on the fall.  If you have some space between the weigth and bait, the bait tends to fall straight down. 

So, when I want a tube to fall straight down, I peg the weight an inch or so higher than the bait.  If I want it to spiral down, I peg it directly to the bait.  Both are very easy if you use the bobber stops I mentioned earlier.

Eric

[bassbuster]

I need to reread about the bobber stops and see about picking some up to try.

[skeeterman190]

 Im chiming in on this way late but i will give some things that i think will be helpful.i skimmed through the post and got some of what other guys were sayin and all good stuff. Not sure what kinda lake your setting your thoughts on but ive found if its a good Largemouth lake you can never go wrong fishing shallow. yeah for those of you who know me i know.. boat docks, thick weeds and lilly pads always hold fish. and to tell ya the truth bigger ones at that. alot of big fish are loners and will seek out spots that are ungodly looking to the eye. my suggestion first would be to get a good dock skipping rod and become good at skipping. u will be amazed at the fish u will fish w some stealth casts to places that most guys cant get to. u might not catch the nunbers of fish but u will catch much better quality. its all in the way u like to fish. time on the water and confidence in what your doing. I was like u and never thought i needed help im a self taught bass fisherman. and ill tell ya it makes ya better but when things are down and you cant figure something out it makes u wonder why u do this..always keep a good head on your shoulders and think about your next move if this one doesnt work.and never give up on something if u think it will work. all u need in a day is 5 bites.