Stumped ....

[LAPORTE]

           I'm new to bass fishing only about 1 year and a half. I have been fishing a local tourney For the last 10 weeks. We fish in the late afternoon with water temps around 78 to 81 deg. I keep watching guys bring in fish. But where are these fish coming from... Do smallies like deep water in the middle of summer when the temps go up ? or do they move to a faster current closer to the dam? Do large mouth always stay in and close to pads.. or do they go to deeper water..

I guess what I'm looking for is the habits' of these fish during the season's changes. With only 3 1/2 hours to fish it's tough to find them. I have been catching several small ones but nothing that will measure. Earlier in the year I was finding the keepers. They since have moved

Thanks to all the people that post a response even the ones that grill me... I can take it... I care nothing about the money in the tourneys I just like catching fish. (and beating my buddies once and awhile)

[Eric]

Lots of people on here will be able to help you, but I think you will get flooded with general info.  I think it will be helpful if you say where you are fishing, or at least what type of water (river, lake, reservoir, clear, stained, dirty water, cover available (rocks, weeds, docks, breaks, etc)) you are fishing.  Depending on a lot of factors, I think the suggestions you will get will vary greatly.  So share with us and we will share back.

[SethV]

I agree with Eric - we really need more info about where you are fishing, the cover available, water conditions, ect.

In the last 2 weeks I have caught good fish in as deep as 42' and shallow as 1'.  Just depends on the water conditions.

Seth

[LAPORTE]

Sorry...


I'm fishing on Belleville Lake in S.E. Michigan. Witch is really a river that was flooded years ago. The water is not very clear. The water temps can vary 5 deg. from one end to another. I see most of the guys heading up river how far I'm not sure ... I'm not looking for any one to tell me what to use to catch them but more on the habits' of fish. I see where some people do drop shotting in deep water. Is this because larger smallies like the cold? Or do large moth go there also..

[joshimoto son]

Welcome to tournament bass fishing. Great isn't it

It's a little diferent when they put a time limit on it huh?

I thought about going through the whole time of year, seasonal patterns thing with ya, but I'm afraid that there might not be enough space on the board for all of that.

Therefore, I'm just gonna tell you to always keep that in mind when heading out to the lake. All that information is regurgitated every year in all the magazines that fill up the rack next to our favorite chair or throne. It was one of the hardest things for me to do, actually sit down and read vs. going out and beating myself up, but it has helped me become more successful.

We really need to understand the "why" when fishing. If we don't, we will never be able to mature as anglers.

Experience is another factor, I have fished all my life, but this is only my sixth season fishing tournaments. After my third year of fishing I wondered how I ever caught a fish previously. Know... after another three years. I can only shake my head at what I thought I knew then.

Every year will get better and better.

One thing that has helped me the most has been fishing with other anglers who have been doing this for a long time. Nothing helps better than spending a day on the water and watching someone that put it together... well... put it together.

Find a mentor.

Now to get you going a little faster for this year. This board is filled with people who are willing to help. If you ask some more specific questions about where you are fishing we can share our experiences with you.

You talked about a dam, are you up on Hardy?

For me, this time of year has been tough on the inland lakes. More specifically, when we're having 80 plus degree days and 50 something nights. I have not caught a lot of fish deep 10-20 FOW. I feel that this time of year is the very early beginning of the fall transition period and that the majority of the fish have not moved up shallow to "put the feed bag on". The ones that are up shallow are catchable. Slow and methodical have not been the way for me either, (which I prefere). Covering as much water with spinner baits on the breaks and weedlines have been the best for me. I'm also doing well around thick weeds and lilly pads with frogs and toads once the sun starts to warm the water back up.

I know I have not covered everything. I hope this is a good start for you and that some of the other members here will contribute.

Good Luck.

joshimoto son

[LAPORTE]

I'm not on Hardy. Where I fish at is Belleville Lake. It is a stretch of water between Bridge rd. dam and Haggerty rd. dam about 6-8 miles of water. A small amount is actually river and the rest is a lake (up to the next dam) with I'm sure is a river channel that runs thru the lake.

[Revtro]

What I've found on the bodies of water that I fish most is that "seasonal patterns" aren't as predictable as the magazines make it sound.  It might be a good place to start, but like Seth said, when the magazines say the fish are supposed to be in their summer "deep" pattern, you can still catch them in 1 FOW.  Yeah, I know that doesn't help a lot.  And herein lies the biggest challenge as far as I am concerned when it comes to bass fishing. 

It seems like there will usually be fish where the "seasonal pattern" says they should be, but that doesn't mean they're the easiest to catch and it doesn't mean there isn't a mother lode where the bass shouldn't be.  For instance, the best day I've had this year was catching 4 and 5 pounders in 3 FOW during the hot part of the summer.  There was no cover anywhere nearby.  It was just a shallow sand flat that went on forever.  A few weeks later, (still the hot summer) I had a great day fishing for them around isolated weeds in 16 FOW all day.  Go figure. 

So what this all means, is that the "seasonal patterns" can be a good place to start, but it's vital to cover as much water as you can in practice and keep a very open mind because often the fish will totally surprise you.  Stick to what the fish are "supposed" to be doing and you may end up frustrated.  You really need to get out there for a couple of days in a row and practice.  Spend a day dissecting one part of the lake and work it both shallow and deep with a variety of presentations from slow to fast.  Then spend the next day doing the same thing on another part of the lake.  I know this doesn't sound that helpful, but you just can't rely on bass to do what the magazines say they should.  The fish don't read Bassmaster.    But the "seasonal patterns" can be a good place to start.

PM me your email if you would like a seasonal pattern chart.  I have one for Smallmouth as well.  I haven't found these to ultra reliable, but on new water, I use them as a guide to get myself started. 

There are unfortunately no easy answers that work all the time.   

[SethV]

Doing the research on summertime patters is a great place to start...but the single biggest key to doing well in tournaments is quite simple:

Time on the water.

Thats it.  If you want to beat the more experienced guys that have been fishing Belleville for years - practice harder than they do.

I have moved a lot the last few years.  I spent 1 year in Oklahoma.  I instantly found myself going up against the local "legends" that have been fishing that water for years.  No way that just figguring out a "seasonal" pattern that I could compete.  I needed to learn the water, structure and fish behavior in detail.  I put lots of long dawn till dusk days in and was able to do well.

Here in Michigan it is no different.  This is my 2nd year here, and the only way I can even stand a chance against the local sticks is with time on the water.  Sure, it sounds like a lot of work.  Before I had kids, I was fishing a weeknight trail in upstate NY - I spent 2 evenings per week just practicing for it.  Guess what?  I did quite well and made lots of good checks.

So, how is it best to practice?

If you don't already have a pattern, take your best guess, deep or shallow and start there.  Work from one depth extreeme to the other.  I prefer to pick one area of the lake, and explore all patterns in that one area.  If you get too many variables, such as location and depth, you will just confuse yourself.  Best case, Belleville is a small lake.  Take 1 day, fish the east end and a 2nd day and fish the west end.  Check docks (deep, shallow, weeds, no weeds, rocks near them, ect), check inside weed edges, channel turns, outside weed edges, rip rap, wood.  Try to pay careful attention not to fish one thing too long...keep moving until you find something that produces and then try to build a pattern.

3 hour tx are a blast - you really have to get your stuff together, no chance to make major adjustments during the event.  They guys that do well know at the start of the event exactly where to go and what to do.  More than 1 or 2 adjustments and you are out of time.

On the seasonal pattern note, for LM I would do either outside weed edges or docks.  Weeds generally force you to have found a concentration of fish, you can't cover a ton of water in 3 hrs.  With docks, you can fish 1 mile of docks per hour with 2 guys working them.  Find the general "type" of docks they are on, get 2 or 3 similar stretchs and go at it.  With summertime dock fish, practice your skipping.  Get it in the "kitchen" the first time, soak it for the count of 10.  Get it out of there, and right back in to another part of the dock.  4 casts to a dock is usually plenty.  Shallow LM on docks in the summer eat it on the inital fall 99% of the time.  One word of caution, poor casts are a real detriment to dock success.  When we lived in NY (on a lake) I could often see fish under our dock.  Just to learn their behavior, I would cast to the outside edge of the dock.  The fish knows it is there, but would not move out to get it.  Then, on my next cast, I would put it under the dock.  The fish would totally ignore it.  If my very FIRST cast was under the dock, right where it belonged, the fish would eat it almost every time.  Moral of the story is that you really have 1 shot to get it right if you want to catch the most fish.

For SM - summer is gennerally TOUGH in inland lakes.  Think rock and deep, but they also relate heavily to alwife or baitfish offshore.  Unless I had to fish for SM, i would target LM on inland water this time of year.

Seth

[Slipkey]

Some very good advice above.   A couple of suggestions/thoughts of my own:

1) If I'm fishing a reservoir or river impoundment, I most always like to start mid-lake.  The middle will likely mix features of the upper and lower ends. Then pick a smaller sub-area of that section which contains a variety of structure, cover, and depth ranges and fish it very hard and very methodically. Once you get a sense of what the fish are doing, you can work your way up and/or down the lake building on what you've found mid-lake.

2) If you've only been bass fishing for a year and a half, when you're locating fish, pick presentations (texas rig, crankbaits, etc.) you feel comfortable with and stick with them.   Trying to master a new presentation and find fish at the same time can be frustrating since you don't know if what you're doing is working or is right.  It can lead to a confidence crisis and your fishing will really suffer once you start doubting yourself. Once you get into some fish or have confidence in an area, then you can try different things to see what's most productive.  On that note, until you get comfortable with new presentations, fish the way you like to fish. Don't worry about what the others are doing until you locate the fish - then you can worry about the different/better ways to catch them.

3)  As for seasonal patterns, the magazines don't lie, but there can be so many variables between different bodies of water that you have to take the specifics in those articles with a grain of salt.  Water clarity, current, weed growth and types, type of bottom and structure all play their role. 

IMHO, the trick in applying those patterns to the lake you're on is in realizing that each body of water requires it's own definition of the following terms: deep, shallow, structure, cover.   In murky or stained waters, deep may 8-12 feet, in others it's over 35 feet.  Conversely, shallow may be less than 12 feet in a clear rocky lake, whereas it's 3 foot or less in a murky, weedy one. Structure may be a rock pile in 40 feet of water on one lake or stumps on a mid-depth flat in another.  Cover may be weeds, downed timber, or in an ultra-clear lake with a sand/rock bottom, the absence of direct sunlight.

Once you determine what those definitions are, though, you can apply the seasonal pattern conventions more reliably.


Hope that helps.

-Jon

[Mojo]

Seth is a machine... You can also hear him hunting the outer edges of the weeds methodically as he writes !

I too am just starting into the tx trails. I cannot hold a candle to what these gents tell you, but when they say find a mentor, do it !   Watch listen and learn.

Ask questions unless your budrow is really focused. Go out with as many folks in March, then April, then May etc ... Take a good notes.

I have fallen in love with the Smallies on LSC, so I will only speak about what I've learned in 2 years, mainly on big water. May not apply here but you never know. I may be asking for your advice on Belleville next year !   

I have learned Smallies go deep generally after the morning sun raises water temps.  If its cloudy and wind makes it choppy, they stay shallow a bit longer.  But Smallies do go deep. As deep as 30 - 50 ft deep ! Bigger Smallies tend to move into the currrent. They gather behind the eddies. Are there any areas where the banks are pinched and water runs faster ? Try there and after a few drifts, cast back at the corners where the water pinched. Are there any areas where faster water runs past spill inlets ? Seems the middle (if deeper) and edges of those areas find Smallies.  Underwater stumps or weed patches, right now could be a slow mop jig. 

As far as baits, a slow weeded deep drift is asking for a drop shot rig, but if there are rocky bottoms, try a tube. Wayne at Xtreme Bass has perfected colors for Smallies. Brian McCarter at Vicious has a drop shot goby that slays Poor Boy lures every time. 

Remember I usually catch fish when my partner puts us on them. I have trouble being on an open body of water and locating them too. 

PS: Check out forum 38. EBA Club. Bunch of nice guys who fish and educate on the water. You'd like it.

[LAPORTE]

Hello All ,


Well I have put together some of your thoughts. I went out on Saturday morning and was back catching fish again... My friend and mentor was watching me struggle and came to my aide as well. I have a lot to learn and it sure is fun learning. Thanks for all of your help I look forward to meeting you all one day.. If your ever on Belleville Lake and you see a old beat up deep vee tracker it's more than likely me... stop by and say hi. Ill be the one with the big head... and I'm not kidding it's a noggin ...
Thanks Don L 

[DOWD]

This might help.
On Belleville, find the 3 road beds that are near the dam end of the lake (hint power lines are above them) and start throwing a jigging spoon.
On windy days fish the points that the current is moving across. The fish on Belleville are very current orientated, the more current the better the fishing. The current will stack the smallies up like cord wood on every point that has water moving. As for the big mouths, fish the ski area at the West end of the lake.

Mark Dowd

[LAPORTE]

Ill be out tonight to check this out thanks