My run in with an unfriendly dock owner last night.

[Mike S.]

Well, it finally happened.  I met a jerk who owns a dock.  I was on Wolf Lake last night with my dad, with the sole intention of fishing docks.  We work our way around the lake, and end up on the north shore.  We are having a good time.  I watch a wake boarding boat head to its dock, and get lifted out of the water.  It is probably 6 docks away from me.  When I get there, the boat is on the far right side, on the left are 3 empty wave runner lifts, and ahead of those, a pontoon lift.

I skip my tube up between the dock and the wave runner lifts.  It hops up and over a steel cable.  When I try to pull it back over, it wraps around the cable.  I go up to it, and my dad is holding the boat for me.  I'm on all fours trying to get my tube when my dad says my name 4 times.  I look ahead, and all I see is feet heading towards me.  I look up, and there is a man yelling at me about fishing his dock, and he is holding a hack saw in his hand.  Now, he just got out of his boat, why is he holding a saw?  He yells, and tells me to fish the middle of the lake.  He asks why "us people" have to fish docks.  I told him that unfortunately, that's where fish go.  He starts yelling about how he is sick of going in the water bare foot, and stepping on hooks, blah blah blah.  As he is saying that, he starts jerking up and down on my line, which is wrapped around a steel cable mind you.  So, I nicely told him that if he breaks my line, he will have nobody to blame but himself for the hook he may step on.  I told him, that will sink.  So, he gets my tube unhooked and continues to yell. 

At this point, I am ready to explode.  He tells me I can't fish docks, and the lake is his property.  I then reminded him that he doesn't own the water, and I am free to fish where I want.  I wasn't hurting anything or anybody, and I told him he was free to call anyone he felt necessary.  As I move away, after making another cast and catching a fish from under his pontoon, he is still acting like a baby and staring me down as I work my way down the shoreline, fishing docks.  After being stared at for 3 or 4 docks, and listening to him moan and groan about me fishing docks, I yelled to him that I wasn't on his dock, so he needed to leave me alone, and worry about himself.

I have a hard time with situations like that. I have a very explosive temper, and it was all I could do not to come unglued on that guy. I think he could have asked me nicely to skip his dock from now on, and I would have been good with it.  But now, I think I have my new favorite spot on Wolf Lake. 

His neighbors talked to me as I fished around their boats and docks, and one guy even told me I could fish from his dock.  Said it makes no difference to him.  Others asked how we were doing, and what were we catching.  I tried my hardest not to get mad, and I understand his frustration if people are hooking his seats and so forth.  I guess I could have handled myself a little better, but him and his saw REALLY p!$$ed me off.

Then, 30 minutes later, a chick on a wave runner runs right between me and the shore I am casting to.  We were only 75 feet from shore at most, and she goes through there at wide open throttle.  I put my rods away and went home.

[MSURoss]

I love fishing docks too. Sorry to hear that. Were you fishing Wolf Lake in Lake County? My home lake is Big Bass Lake next to Wolf Lake.

[Dan]

When I was at Wheeler, watching Skeet and David Walker fish, in the middle of a channel on a hump, (the two were separated by maybe 30 yard) a waverunner went right between them. Shortly after that David Walker caught one of his biggest fish. Can be aggravating, but I don't think it really bothers the fish.

[Waterfoul]

Fished that lake a few times... I'm pretty sure I know the dock you are refering to!  I weighed in a 5 lb 19 oz fish in a local club tourney that I caught right under the prop of his lifted ski boat!!  Biggest bass I ever caught on a Senko!  LOL!!!

I love people who think they own the lake they live on.  Fact is... they don't own a darn thing past the point where the water meets their beach.

Fish on, have fun, don't sweat the morons.

[rkillick]

makes me want to carry a bag of rusty hooks and as soon as they start with the bs- pull out the rusty hooks and donate them to his/her dock area by the hand full until they stop the bs.

[Revtro]

The few times this has happened to me, I calmly suggested that they call local law enforcement and informed them of the angler harassment law and that pretty much ended the confrontation.  With one guy I offered to make the call myself and he backed down. 

I'm curious though how this applies to yacht clubs and "private" canals.  I get looks occasionally for fishing around yacht club entrances, but I haven't gone into any clubs.  They all have signs posted telling me I can't come in, but I wonder if that's really legal or if it's considered private property since it's a man-made harbor.  Not sure on that one.  Mostly I just avoid those places because it's often not worth the hassle. 

But last year I was in a marina in the North Channel and a lady gave me a bunch of grief asking if we really needed to be fishing there.  I just told her that it was a decent fishing spot and that I would be moving out of the area pretty quickly.  She didn't like my answer but ended up quieting down.  I just try to stay calm and polite if I can.  But I know how you felt...it can be infuriating.  People can really be idiots with nothing better to do than harass other people.  I figure those people need to get lives of their own and something better to do. 

[djkimmel]

The few times this has happened to me, I calmly suggested that they call local law enforcement and informed them of the angler harassment law and that pretty much ended the confrontation.  With one guy I offered to make the call myself and he backed down.

Argue with a fool and they'll bring you to their level and beat you with experience everytime...

Rev has the right answer though every now and then I have run into someone who is beyond reason or facts of any kind. Having spoke at many public meetings in the past, I have heard some riparians who were beyond rationality and normal thought.

It's hard to do sometimes (I really know too being a redhead) but it's a waste of time to argue with them. I've never been threatened with a hack saw before but my friend was shot at by bottle rockets on Lobdell Lake while fishing a dock, and one time another friend of mine and I had a wackjob shoot a shotgun over our heads at Charlevoix long before the angler harassment law was passed. We were just fishing a point though fairly close to shore. A bunch of people came out of the same condos and yelled at the guy saying if he didn't get back in his house THEY were calling the sheriff. He walked very fast back into the house and did not come back out.

Also on Charlevoix, we had a run-in similar to yours by a lovely 'gentleman' who accused of of planning to steal from his crummy boats and he was going to call the sheriff. I was mad, but I just told him to go ahead and call, and went back to fishing. My partner however had to be somewhat restrained because he lost his temper and started ashore... which I guaranty would have gotten us in the end of big trouble.

I actually had a deputy once ask us to leave a canal on Saginaw Bay because 'there were other places to fish and he just wanted to end the complaining and wasting of everyone's time.' We left. Just wasn't worth it. Another time, we had a security guard threaten to have us arrested, and repeatedly put his hand on his gun while fishing an outflow in the northern Great Lakes. I wanted to leave but my partner was adamant that as long was we were on the water, we were in the right. I demure to the gun every time personally...

There is no 100% correct resolution to each issue though safety of yourself, your fishing partners and your equipment should come first. Courtesy helps too. If people are on a dock, I either skip it or ask first depending on what they are doing. If there are people swimming, especially kids, I go around.

[djkimmel]

On most lakes in Michigan with any public access, or inflowing navigable river, you can legally fish anywhere you can get to by water (I was told once by an MDNR employee that 'theoretically' if you dropped your boat onto a lake by helicopter you could legally fish it but I have not tested that one yet - not sure I will), but the landowners do have riparian rights in that they have certain rights for the bottom-lands of the lake kind of like a pie slice out to the center from their property.

Many riparians falsely believe this means they own the water, the fish and anything on the water too but it does not. (I recall a guy stating at a public meeting in Oakland County that he had the legal right to shoot any deer on his property any time of the year and any duck on the water any time of the year because it was his property - if you don't know by now, some people can be shown the facts, laws, etc and they'll only argue the point even more vehemently. At the same meeting, another 'person' stated that the state broke the law when they let people who don't live on a lake own a boat?!? Yee        haa - I love 'the public' sometimes)

Riparian rights mean they can put in a dock on there bottom-land and you can't. Or they can put out a sail boat anchor on their bottom-land, but you can't. Unless, of course local ordinances or other laws passed by the majority say otherwise.

As far as canals and marinas that use our water (in Michigan, I can't speak for other states since I have not studied their laws as much) you usually can legally fish them despite signs and threats to the contrary. You have to decide if it is worth the hassle, if any.

There are cases where (snooty) locals have been able to pass local ordinances that make our water off limits to us such as some of the big boat marinas along the southwestern part of Lake St. Clair. So far, you can be charged with trespassing under that local ordinance if you fish within that marina and are ticketed. Until someone comes along with a big checkbook willing to fight those regulations in court to the finish, the fine will stick.

In addition, some other laws and regulations may apply, such as you cannot block a restricted depth, marked channel such as an entrance in or out of a marina, canal, etc causing a larger craft with limited draft to have to leave the marked channel and risk running aground. If you're fishing a channel or entrance, you must stay alert and get out of the way so that larger craft can safely come in or out. You can be ticketed if an officer feels you were blocking traffic and/or causing a safety hazard. Think the Clinton River mouth for example or a marina entrance.

There may be other local ordinances in regards to safety areas, beaches, etc that you also need to be aware of. Usually, these have to do with boating but sometimes, an officer having a bad day or not liking your attitude can stretch interpretation and still ticket you under some regulation.

I think it always helps in a confrontation to first, avoid it, and second, if the law does get involved, make it easy for the law to see who is being rationale and just enjoying their fishing, verses foaming at the mouth and just generally hating another segment of society.

[YpsiBass]

Wasn't aware of this law, but it's good to know.  Link for the fellow uninformed:

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10364_52261-70417--,00.html

[stackenem]

riparian rights in that they have certain rights for the bottom-lands of the lake kind of like a pie slice out to the center from their property.

So would this make anchoring or a power pole trespassing???

[thedude]

riparian rights in that they have certain rights for the bottom-lands of the lake kind of like a pie slice out to the center from their property.

So would this make anchoring or a power pole trespassing???

technically yes. they get people for duck hunting on "private property" because they are wading or have boats or decoys anchored etc... its a very grey law that no one really understands. Its intent is basically give land owners mineral rights but has been construed to meet other agendas.

Mike - next time just get your phone out and video tape the guy. don't say a word, just put the camera in his face. if he shuts up and leaves, fine - if not call the cops. some people need to be put in their place.

[djkimmel]

Usually anchoring a boat to fish is not going to get you into trouble, unless maybe you anchor it and leave it in front of their house while you go ashore for dinner or overnight or something. Duck hunting brings up other issues with some people so I can see where that could be more of a problem. Maybe print out and keep a copies of the angler and hunter harassment regs. Pass them out to people who are extra twerpy...

As far as taping without saying anything, that could be pretty funny for Youtube (and on here) as long as you stay out of reach of the hack saw and they don't look like they might become completely unhinged and go get a gun or something else crazy. The guy that shot over our heads could have had an extra bad day (life, whatever) and just shot us in a moment of stupider than normal. I have a feeling some people might react similar to lunacy if you tape them. People really can convince themselves of just about anything.

Years ago, I dealt with an angler from Ohio who was rammed by a tuna boat in a canal. Similar deal. The guy was mad he was in there. They had words about laws and harassment. The shore guy jumped in his much bigger boat and rammed the bass boat.

Sure, the guys was nuts and probably needs anger management classes, but it was scary that it went that far and could have done more than just serious damage to equipment.

[Revtro]

I don't mean to hijack the thread.

As far as the gun thing goes since it's been mentioned twice in this discussion...  If a guy on land were constantly putting his hand on his pistol like it sounded like Dan was describing, that could legally be considered brandishing.  If I were fishing around a dock and some land owner started playing with a pistol in any way, I'd immediately call the cops.  I carry mine everywhere I go and it's been my understanding that even I pull up my shirt to purposely intimidate someone by showing it to them, it's considered brandishing.  So I'm pretty sure some home owner trying to intimidate you with his gun by "putting his hand on it" while he's yelling at you is grounds for calling the po-po.  In an instance like that, I agree with Dan.  Move away from the situation...then call the cops.  Guys like that only give us responsible gun owners a bad name.  

[VinceR]

I don't mean to hijack the thread.

As far as the gun thing goes since it's been mentioned twice in this discussion...  If a guy on land were constantly putting his hand on his pistol like it sounded like Dan was describing, that could legally be considered brandishing.  If I were fishing around a dock and some land owner started playing with a pistol in any way, I'd immediately call the cops.  I carry mine everywhere I go and it's been my understanding that even I pull up my shirt to purposely intimidate someone by showing it to them, it's considered brandishing.  So I'm pretty sure some home owner trying to intimidate you with his gun by "putting his hand on it" while he's yelling at you is grounds for calling the po-po.  In an instance like that, I agree with Dan.  Move away from the situation...then call the cops.  Guys like that only give us responsible gun owners a bad name.  

Tom, I agree with this 100%.

And, you are absolutely correct. Exposing or touching your weapon in a threatening way constitutes "brandishing", and is a chargeable offense.  

[Redbone]

I wanted to dock fish a last week. Every dock I went to I had a dog follow me.  I think he wanted in the boat. I would get one cast in and then here he comes. This happened for about 45 minutes.  At first I though it was cute. Then the cuteness wore off. Spayed and neutered threats were used. He finally gave up.

[Durand Dan]

I don't mean to hijack the thread.

As far as the gun thing goes since it's been mentioned twice in this discussion...  If a guy on land were constantly putting his hand on his pistol like it sounded like Dan was describing, that could legally be considered brandishing.  If I were fishing around a dock and some land owner started playing with a pistol in any way, I'd immediately call the cops.  I carry mine everywhere I go and it's been my understanding that even I pull up my shirt to purposely intimidate someone by showing it to them, it's considered brandishing.  So I'm pretty sure some home owner trying to intimidate you with his gun by "putting his hand on it" while he's yelling at you is grounds for calling the po-po.  In an instance like that, I agree with Dan.  Move away from the situation...then call the cops.  Guys like that only give us responsible gun owners a bad name.  

You carry a gun fishing? How's that work out in Canada?

[matt]

Isn't it considered attempted assault the second the guy came out with a hack saw?


I would have called the cops immediately.

[Revtro]

You carry a gun fishing? How's that work out in Canada?

LOL of course not.  That wouldn't work out too well.  Them Canadians take that stuff pretty seriously, eh.  

Guess I should have said "most places I go".   

[Revtro]

Isn't it considered attempted assault the second the guy came out with a hack saw?


I would have called the cops immediately.

Agreed. I would at the very least think that was menacing behavior.  I would have called the cops immediately.  No need to tolerate that kind of behavior. 

[TCook]

I agree with thedude some dock owners need to be put in there place. I tend to get just as aggressive as they get with me. Although I have recently decided unless I am in my own boat I will let the boat owner decide if he wants to escalate the situation or not.