2012 TBF of Michigan state championship July 15 Lake St Clair

[djkimmel]

The 2012 TBF of Michigan adult state championship will be Sunday, July 15 on Lake St. Clair out of Harley Ensign ramp. All waters open. More details to come. The state team from this event will fish the September 2013 TBF northern divisional championship somewhere in Ohio (not Sandusky Bay).

[Eric]

Not Sandusky Bay.  Ok.  How about Toledo, Cawtawba, Pt Clinton, Marblehead, Huron, Vermillion, Lorain, Cleveland, Avon, Ashtabula?  Lots of decent fishing on Ohio.  Get away from these and it will take about 6 pounds in 3 days to win.  Unless it's on the river.  Then figure about 4 pounds.

[djkimmel]

Beyond 'not Sandusky Bay' I don't have any other details. There are still many options and when it comes right down to it, you're still all competing on the same fish on the same water. I had fun on every state team I've ever been on regardless of the fishing.

[motocross269]

St Clair.... ...Like that.....

Was there any talk about making this a 2 day event???.....I thought I heard that being thrown around but maybe I am wrong....

[motocross269]

I know I am going to be sorry for this but I will bite.....

Jon, Define a Pro.......

I am about as much a part time tournament fisherman as there is and those names don't deter me....I missed qualifying the last 2 years on LSC by around 2 lbs....I think 14 lbs made the team both years...That isn't squat.....So it isn't like it takes takes an elite bag to make the team...

As far as TBF paying your way to the Regionals....Why do you feel that it is an entitlement if you make the State team that your fellow TBF members foot the bill to pay your way??....It is an opportunity if you make the team not an obligation.......If you don't want to fish there are plenty of guys that will be willing to save their pennies through the winter for that opportunity.....Does FLW pay your way to the BFL Regional...??
Become more marketable and hook up with some sponsors if you want someone to foot the bill.....

The TBF and BASS championships aren't about making a profit....It is about competing for an opportunity down the road....Hopefully I can invest more time and have the opportunity some day.....

Jon, the bottom line is if you don't like the system...Don't get involved..There are plenty of great opens out there to fish....

[djkimmel]

Very well said moto. You either feel like you can compete or you don't. You can either afford to compete or you can't. I always tried to make it for the opportunities. I'm not going to skip the state championship because I'm afraid I can't make it over this angler or that angler. If I felt that way about tournament competition, I would have never started fishing tournaments in the first place!

The best way to boost expenses for the state team qualifiers is to promote TBF of Michigan to get more members and more entrants into the state championship. Lake St. Clair is usually a good draw. It's a very popular place to fish and we can follow FLW Outdoors and take advantage of their trailer and tournament staff. That helps when we are short of volunteers.

The question about trying to qualify a team that is 'targeted' for the regional water is older than dirt and a complete waste of time as far as I'm concerned. I've been on a number of winning teams, and it was how they practiced and shared together, or just how good of overall anglers they were that made them a winning team. I've heard of other states that 'built' teams targeted towards the regional water and our team beat them or finished higher anyway more often than not.

As far as votes and personal positions, when you are in the minority and you lose the votes multiple times, that means the majority wants things differently than you do. This entire country is built on majority rules. It's not a foreign and/or misunderstood concept. Going on and on about it forever doesn't change anything. It is pretty tiring though. Not much of a 'charge' if there's no one following behind.

I said in my post 'More details to come' so there's not much sense in asking a lot of questions already. If there were answers, I would have posted them. There's definitely no sense in getting wound up about where the regional will be since 1) you haven't made the team yet; and 2) no one knows where it is going to be yet. It would be pretty foolish to change the state championship to the Grand River for example and then find out the regional was on a different part of Lake Erie. If that even matters. Which it doesn't.

I like that the state championship is on a great fishing lake, announced very early, already set so anglers can plan their schedules well ahead and make their choices.

[djkimmel]

St Clair.... ...Like that.....

Was there any talk about making this a 2 day event???.....I thought I heard that being thrown around but maybe I am wrong....

Still a one-day event. On Sunday to follow the BFL so we can tag on to their trailer, equipment and staff for our event. We may get to the point were we don't need to do that but I've always liked it. I promoted it when I was on the board and was always very thankful to have a partner like FLW Outdoors.

I used to like the 2-day event but was often by anglers that they wish it was a 1-day event. Between wanting to start out cheaper and simplified, and following a BFL, we went to a 1-day event.

I have no problem talking about future plans and wanting to do things different but it's also helpful to stay within your budget and make things work as best they can until you're ready to do more. I think it even helps to get to the point you can have your own equipment and enough volunteers if you make the best with what you have at the moment.

The board discussed a number of these things before this meeting and during this meeting. I think they are taking a good approach to things and attempting to do the best they can with what they have on hand. That's a good way to go about things.

Also interesting to have two totally new board members. Maybe additional energy and ideas?

[motocross269]

Not to spill too much dirty laundry but I didn't buy into the 100 percent free state tournament either...I talked to Jeff and other members of the board on that subject....I think alot of guys took advantage of that promotion and I would be willing to bet a large number of them are no longer TBF members....
100 dollars times 100 anglers or so is alot of money that was lost for TBF funding....
JMHO....

That is water under the bridge now though.....

[djkimmel]

I like the entry fees go to the tournament expenses and state team myself. Always have. It has worked well for many years. I like a successful federation that runs their state championship, has a youth program and works to better bass fishing and the environment too.

When the majority votes another way like they did with the free entry state championship, majority rules. They tried it. I do not know if they will try it again or not. It comes down to a motion or proposal, majority vote and people working to make it happen. It's a volunteer organization.

[Waterfoul]

I have to question the "any waters" part of the tournament.  Don't get me wrong... I WANT to fish Canadien waters... but what if the non-boater I draw, or you draw, or Mark draws, etc.... does NOT have a Canadien license?  Does the boater have to stay in US waters just because his non-boater doesn't have a license to fish in Canada?  Does the non-boater have to sit in the boat and not fish for that 4 hours of the day?

[motocross269]

I have to question the "any waters" part of the tournament.  Don't get me wrong... I WANT to fish Canadien waters... but what if the non-boater I draw, or you draw, or Mark draws, etc.... does NOT have a Canadien license?  Does the boater have to stay in US waters just because his non-boater doesn't have a license to fish in Canada?  Does the non-boater have to sit in the boat and not fish for that 4 hours of the day?

BASS Federation requires that you have a Canadian License and an American License....They checked them both last time I fished with them on LSC....Both Boaters and Co anglers....

I haven't seen TBF do that yet but it would probably be a good idea...Say for instance I am required to go as a Co angler there is a chance that I may want to take my 4 hours of control in Canadian waters......So it can't just be up to the boater's discretion...(Like a BFL)...

I always buy both so I haven't paid alot of attention to how that is enforced.....

[dartag]

I have to question the "any waters" part of the tournament.  Don't get me wrong... I WANT to fish Canadien waters... but what if the non-boater I draw, or you draw, or Mark draws, etc.... does NOT have a Canadien license?  Does the boater have to stay in US waters just because his non-boater doesn't have a license to fish in Canada?  Does the non-boater have to sit in the boat and not fish for that 4 hours of the day?

BASS Federation requires that you have a Canadian License and an American License....They checked them both last time I fished with them on LSC....Both Boaters and Co anglers....

I haven't seen TBF do that yet but it would probably be a good idea...Say for instance I am required to go as a Co angler there is a chance that I may want to take my 4 hours of control in Canadian waters......So it can't just be up to the boater's discretion...(Like a BFL)...

I always buy both so I haven't paid alot of attention to how that is enforced.....

if you are a boater do you have to give the Co 4 hours control of the boat and you fish from the back??

   Would think Co's would need Canada and Wapole in case the boater wants to go there.   Bought a Wapole 3 years when i fished the BFL's as a co and never went there.  but had to have them.  Guess Ohio is a consideration also. 



are there rules somewhere i can read??

[Waterfoul]

Gonna play the "dumb" card:  What's a Wapole?

[djkimmel]

I have to question the "any waters" part of the tournament.  Don't get me wrong... I WANT to fish Canadien waters... but what if the non-boater I draw, or you draw, or Mark draws, etc.... does NOT have a Canadien license?  Does the boater have to stay in US waters just because his non-boater doesn't have a license to fish in Canada?  Does the non-boater have to sit in the boat and not fish for that 4 hours of the day?

BASS Federation requires that you have a Canadian License and an American License....They checked them both last time I fished with them on LSC....Both Boaters and Co anglers....

I haven't seen TBF do that yet but it would probably be a good idea...Say for instance I am required to go as a Co angler there is a chance that I may want to take my 4 hours of control in Canadian waters......So it can't just be up to the boater's discretion...(Like a BFL)...

I always buy both so I haven't paid alot of attention to how that is enforced.....

New president Dave Reault has fished about a million tournaments there. I expect all that will be worked out shortly. In my mind, since no matter who is running ANY tournament, it still comes down to EVERY single angler being personally familiar with all local regulations and not expect the tournament organization to tell them what they are, it should be obvious to each angler what is needed ahead of time. TBF of Michigan board did say ALL WATERS OPEN - so anglers should study the water, see there are multiple jurisdictions and be legal in all of them.

It has never ceased to amaze me in any tournament I have fished anywhere in the country that anglers show up without an apparent clue. Do you have any idea how many times right before a BFL or other St. Clair / Erie event I get Friday evening phone calls from anglers desperate to obtain fishing licenses that they should have bought weeks or months ago? Do your due diligence counting on yourself, not someone else. Or maybe you shouldn't be fishing tournaments anywhere except the local home lake? I'm talking to anyone in general. It is part of the cost of choosing to fish tournaments.

That is just my own personal opinion. I am not on the board and just speaking from long of experience seeing anglers repeat the same mistakes season after season, and even not taking personal responsibility for it. I always help the anglers as much I can when they call... but this same thing has been discussed every year for as long as I can remember. Buy the licenses. Read the tournament rules. Know the local regulations from all jurisdictions. These are things every tournament angler should personally be responsible for, not any tournament organization.

One of my last BFLs, I drew a co-angler who bought an Ontario conservation license to 'save money.' I told him, my spots for that day on St. Clair were all in Ontario waters and that he would only be able to keep 2 keepers until we returned to US waters because that is what a conservation license allows. I said if I could, I would stop in US waters on the way in to try to help him get more. Luckily, he took complete personal responsibility for his own actions and got his 2 keepers telling me he would not make that mistake again (of not knowing the regulations for the waters being fished).

Blaming any of these types of things on any tournament organization is wrong and unfair to the organization. Part of the reason I've never like running tournaments myself is having to listen to some angry angler blaming me for his or her own lack of personal responsibility and preparedness. Knowing rules and regulations, and being prepared is the responsibility of the angler.

[Eric]

Mike, Walpole is the Indian Reservation at the north end of LSC.  You have to have a special license to fish there.

The license issue isn't unique to this.  I was a Bassmaster this year and there was a "pro" there who was dumbfounded that he had to have a license for the state that the tournament was being hosted by, because he planned to do all of his fishing in another jurisdiction.

[djkimmel]

I have to question the "any waters" part of the tournament.  Don't get me wrong... I WANT to fish Canadien waters... but what if the non-boater I draw, or you draw, or Mark draws, etc.... does NOT have a Canadien license?  Does the boater have to stay in US waters just because his non-boater doesn't have a license to fish in Canada?  Does the non-boater have to sit in the boat and not fish for that 4 hours of the day?

BASS Federation requires that you have a Canadian License and an American License....They checked them both last time I fished with them on LSC....Both Boaters and Co anglers....

I haven't seen TBF do that yet but it would probably be a good idea...Say for instance I am required to go as a Co angler there is a chance that I may want to take my 4 hours of control in Canadian waters......So it can't just be up to the boater's discretion...(Like a BFL)...

I always buy both so I haven't paid alot of attention to how that is enforced.....

if you are a boater do you have to give the Co 4 hours control of the boat and you fish from the back??

   Would think Co's would need Canada and Wapole in case the boater wants to go there.   Bought a Wapole 3 years when i fished the BFL's as a co and never went there.  but had to have them.  Guess Ohio is a consideration also. 

are there rules somewhere i can read??

Having all the required licenses is just part of choosing to fish tournaments. In both federations, each angler gets equal time fishing their own water. That is how all draw tournaments used to be. The federations have not changed from that. That time includes travel to and from fishing spots. The boater drives the boat but each angler should have equal time running the front of the boat on their own spots if they want it.

The discussion with your partner as soon as you meet is very important. Some things just aren't feasible and the earlier you hash that out, the better. Often, compromises are made but neither angler should try to deny the other their fishing time or risk being protested. If you're a non-boater, you have to speak up as soon as you meet.

Doesn't work too well if later during the actual tournament day things aren't going the way you like and you then try to change plans. Work it out ahead of time and often, both anglers can be fair with each other as possible. A better day in the boat due to working together helps many of us fish better too. If you're trying to work together, it is more likely good decisions and adjustments are possible during the actual tournament day too.

I've drawn boaters who were just on way better stuff and went with them all day. I didn't blame them later if I wasn't fishing well. I've drawn boaters who tried to deny me my time when I felt I needed it and I just made it clear I expected my time rather than complain later that I didn't get my time. If a boater actually does deny your time ahead of the event, you can go to the tournament director(s) and get something done about it. The boater can also go to the tournament director ahead of time if the non-boater demands that you run 70 miles to fish a spot or some crazy thing that you don't feel is safe or sensible for the conditions or half of the day including travel time.

That kind of stuff really doesn't happen often. Just part of the difference in fishing a draw-type event which type both the TBF or Federation Nation regional events are also. Part of the reason the state championships both have that format.

[djkimmel]

Mike, Walpole is the Indian Reservation at the north end of LSC.  You have to have a special license to fish there.

The license issue isn't unique to this.  I was a Bassmaster this year and there was a "pro" there who was dumbfounded that he had to have a license for the state that the tournament was being hosted by, because he planned to do all of his fishing in another jurisdiction.

I fished tournaments for a long time. Lots of tournaments. I would just look incredulously at some anglers who would show with the craziest ideas involving decisions they felt saved $10 or $50 after they just spent hundreds to thousands to be there on so many other things. They're just hamstringing themselves, and dragging everyone else down a little with them in wasteful nonsense.

I know I have been in tournaments where anglers ran up creeks into other states that required them to have the actual license but they only had the 1 reciprocal license. I know I'm not risking getting dq'd from a tournament for such a silly reason. Too much at stake to make, what to me, seems like a rookie, sloppy mistake.

[motocross269]

I have to question the "any waters" part of the tournament.  Don't get me wrong... I WANT to fish Canadien waters... but what if the non-boater I draw, or you draw, or Mark draws, etc.... does NOT have a Canadien license?  Does the boater have to stay in US waters just because his non-boater doesn't have a license to fish in Canada?  Does the non-boater have to sit in the boat and not fish for that 4 hours of the day?

BASS Federation requires that you have a Canadian License and an American License....They checked them both last time I fished with them on LSC....Both Boaters and Co anglers....

I haven't seen TBF do that yet but it would probably be a good idea...Say for instance I am required to go as a Co angler there is a chance that I may want to take my 4 hours of control in Canadian waters......So it can't just be up to the boater's discretion...(Like a BFL)...

I always buy both so I haven't paid alot of attention to how that is enforced.....

if you are a boater do you have to give the Co 4 hours control of the boat and you fish from the back??

   Would think Co's would need Canada and Wapole in case the boater wants to go there.   Bought a Wapole 3 years when i fished the BFL's as a co and never went there.  but had to have them.  Guess Ohio is a consideration also. 



are there rules somewhere i can read??

I have a friend of mine that has had pretty good success on LSC as a boater....He didn't get in the top 5 in Team Bass tournaments so he had to fish LSC as a Co Angler during a Federation Tournament...He took his 4 hours...Made his boaters shut off all of his electronics and ran with his handheld.....He qualified for the state Team and if memory serves me right his boater on the second day did also catching a nice sack on my friends spot......So sometimes it works out for everyone involved...You never know what a Co angler may be onto...

[djkimmel]

When I was a perennial non-boater, I always practiced and had spots. It came in handy quite a few times. I even got my boater in a regional one time to let me use my boat instead. We both got nice limits but he did say he would never give up 'control' again. Not sure exactly why? All his fish came off my spot. My boat was bigger in rough water. We got along well and he even helped with extra effort to get my biggest bass in the boat despite being from competing states.

I believe he was worried about all the cracked hulls, broken and lost equipment, and scary reports from day 1 and not being used to big water (Southern Indiana guy) he decided to let me take the waves with my bigger boat and my being used to rough water. It ended up being not as rough on day 2 as predicted.

That's just part of tournament fishing. Learn from each day and each partner. Try to work together. Sometimes your draw turns out better just from how you approach it.