Michigan Bass Season POLL

[Waterfoul]

I agree with Dan based on some reports I've read and discussions I've had with him and several others "in the know" in the state.  Proposing new fees or more confusing regs will get nothing accomplished.  I'd like to see bass season open all year.  Plain.  Simple.  No confusion.  No extra fee.  I'd rather see them do an increase to the FISHING LICENSE itself than have some other kind of "catch and release" fee.  I buy the both licenses every year, and I rarely trout fish any more... but I might.  A simple $28 covers me for any species.

[bigmojet]

I also buy the all species license every year but havent fished for trout or salmon in 3 years.

When i fished the rivers heavy for steelhead most of the winter into April, i really didnt mind waiting till bass opener(before c/r season on bass) cause i had end of april thru may for pike.

Know i just want to go catch some bass and have to wait another month. I bet i would win the cleanest rod and reels tourney as thats what i have been doing for the last 2 months.

[djkimmel]

Just a reminder - This thread is requesting that you document how you want the bass season. We stated earlier - do not copy someones idea and then trounce it.

The thread is to display where people stand. I guarantee dozens of fisherman will not even respond now for fear of conflict - based on some of these responses. And when people throw up their hands to avoid being unpopular, or avoid conflict, they leave those decisions that affect them ... to non fishermen, pH Ds, and non fishing lawmakers .........  or fishermen who want a very specific thing.

Dan has brought alot of history and knowledge that many of us did not know existed, so we all learned. Education is infact key. The owner of GLB does infact get privledges we do not ... but I was hoping for everyone to place their opinion and what their ideal Bass Season should be.

No one should be afraid to speak their opinion on this website. If they are, I have to ask why? But you also can't expect to state your opinion and not get other, sometimes opposite opinions back. That is the essence of any good, adult discussion. Just keep it about the topic and not the person. I think everyone is doing that.

I also don't expect everyone to agree with everything I say or think. People have disagreed with me plenty of times. I haven't banned any of them or deleted their comments. Sometimes they delete their own comments. I only delete comments that are spam or appear to just be out to start trouble because they are bored or whatever drives people to stir things up when they sometimes don't even care about the issue. I RARELY have to do that.

If someone is afraid to disagree with me because it is my website, I can't really help that much other than to say you can disagree with me. But you can also expect that I will often actively debate and push for my own opinions and ideas as hard as anyone else. Why wouldn't I? Why wouldn't anyone? I'm not right all the time and like anyone else, I have my own reasons for thinking the way I do.

If we all thought alike, that would be pretty weird and not much fun. We should be able to debate things and state our opinions on here without getting angry or taking it too personal. That's kind of how our society is supposed to work. We all have enough in common on this forum that we should be able to handle that.

[djkimmel]

I agree with Dan based on some reports I've read and discussions I've had with him and several others "in the know" in the state.  Proposing new fees or more confusing regs will get nothing accomplished.  I'd like to see bass season open all year.  Plain.  Simple.  No confusion.  No extra fee.  I'd rather see them do an increase to the FISHING LICENSE itself than have some other kind of "catch and release" fee.  I buy the both licenses every year, and I rarely trout fish any more... but I might.  A simple $28 covers me for any species.

I agree that our fishing license is an amazing deal. I now buy the full license every year even with my greatly reduced income. I might fish for just about anything anymore if I get the chance. I greatly sympathize with our MDNR about their budget challenges. They rarely raise the license fees and every time they do bring it up, it is quite the spectacle. I was on the MUCC board of directors during one of those times. There was some solid support and some screaming about this group or that group would no longer be able to afford to fish. I agree it is fairly ridiculous considering all the gadgets and things so many of us spend our money on, but there is some truth to it too. You raise the fees and some people quit.

Personally, I want our Michigan natural resources to get everything it needs because I do believe that is our present and future, and it so very important to me. But... that is another issue for another topic. The more we mix into just trying to get our bass regulated based on all the available science verses what we have now, the harder it will be to make any progress.

[djkimmel]

Look, what I would like to have verses what I think we can get is always different. I wish it weren't so but I don't have unlimited resources of time, energy and money. It is hard to get a good number of anglers on the same page and doing what is needed when it comes to changes. At this point, I don't even know what might be possible verses very hard and probably not possible. I hope to have a better idea by the end of April. Maybe.

Who knows, maybe we will be pleasantly surprised, but realistically, it is more likely some people will be made more happy and some people will be disappointed. That is pretty much how all public changes go. I tend to put my energy towards what I personally think is possible so I don't waste time and effort on what I think is not possible for many different reasons. I have butt heads in the past but it is not very much fun and can have long term costs. I prefer not to.

There is always the option for anyone to get involved and try to get what they want. Change can be accomplished if you work hard and smart enough with enough resources and support. But the change you want can determine how hard it will be, and then you have to decide if you have the time, energy, drive, resources and support to succeed. If you don't, then you will just butt heads and waste a lot of effort. You also just might make it much harder for others to get anywhere at all. That is just how public change goes.

For now, I'd like to see what might be possible first with the most efficient use of time and resources, and then figure out what to do about it. Like I said, there is always the chance we will be pleasantly surprised. Maybe. Maybe not. Who knows?

With public change, sometimes the only way to get to the top of the stairs is to take them one step at a time.

[Mojo]

Interesting. The poll has shown some interesting data to preserve:

* < 5% want no changes
* Almost 50% support C&IR of some form (47%)
* More than 1/3 (37%) wish for a full open season
* 1 in 6 are willing to pay for additional fishing opportunity (although these were added much later after the poll started)
* ZERO percent support the Closed season in spring


Clearly, there is a desire for more fishing opportunity, so after the April DNR meeting, as I understand it, Dan will let us know if there are options, and if we can help. Thanks for joining in. Your opinion is extremely important.



Data based off snap shot as of 3/27 12 pm (49) persons:

Not Change  2 (4.1%)
Be C&IR Feb 16. - day before memorial day; Possession is  is Memorial day - Feb. 15  7 (14.3%)
Be C&IR Jan 1 - Day before Memorial Day; Season is  Memorial Day - Dec 31  14 (28.6%)
Have no season - open all year  18 (36.7%)
$30 C&DR permit, all year, Harvest season remains the same   6 (12.2%)
C&IR Jan 1- mar 15; closed til day before memorial day, possession rest of season  0 (0%)
$15 C&IR permit, all year, possession starts memorial day - Jan 1  2 (4.1%

[thedude]

i'm for year-round open season, i however think that a C&DR is the most ideal option from a conservation perspective as well as from an accessibility one.

[1javelin]

There are several prominent wildlife programs based in the state of Michigan, with big enough pocketbooks to support some of this research.  Maybe someone should mention this kind of a study to them...

I happen to be for an open season all year.  People won't fish when it's cold, raining, whatever may be the case, but those of us willing to rbave the elements and spend the money to exercise our rights should be given the opportunity until it's proven detrimental. 

1jav

[djkimmel]

Really, truly, there have been plenty of studies already done including in Michigan regarding bass seasons. The people in that line of work know it too. There are a number of things that can be studied with a better use of money and resources like fish diseases, maybe the effect of aquatic plant treatment levels on fish types and populations, the effects of forage and/or exotics on fish and populations. Plenty.

There are always localized things to address for specific lake and river issues too. We have so much water in Michigan, there's probably plenty to do with specific local waters that have things like stunted fish, slow-growing fish, populations imbalances, etc - not just bass of course. Bass pretty much take care of themselves most of the time, except maybe when people do things like take out all the cover or pollute the water.

[Waterfoul]

I think I said this before... I don't remember.  Open season all year long, that's how I feel.   

[Waterfoul]

If you read mulitple fishing sites these days you will find this same poll (slightly modified) on another site.  As I'm typing this here are the results there after 66 votes there:

Open season all year:  22 votes.  33%
Catch and Release Feb. 15th to Saturday before Memorial Day:  9 votes 13%
Catch and Release Jan. 1st to Saturday before Memorial Day:  20 votes 30%
Keep it the same as it is now:  15 votes 23%

The other site is not dedicated to bass like this one is, so there are a lot of multi-species fishermen, once/twice a year fishermen, etc...

But as you can see the highest percentage of people still want no closed season, and a whopping 77% are in favor of a change in the current regulations.  It also shows that dedicated bass fishermen (which many of us are on this site) greatly favor no closed season.  44 out of a total of 118 for about 35%.  101 out of 118 people favor change from the current regulations.  That's a HUGE 85%. 

I think the numbers speak for themselves:

We need a change in Michigan.

[bigjc]

why really do we not allow anglers to legally fish bass for almost 4 months?

Because the MDNR is operated by S#!&heads, obviously!!!  There can be no other answer.

[djkimmel]

why really do we not allow anglers to legally fish bass for almost 4 months?

Because the MDNR is operated by S#!&heads, obviously!!!  There can be no other answer.

I don't think that is true. I may have felt that way at times about 2 or maybe 3 particular people in the process last time several years ago, but the people have changed (reassignment, retirement, paradigm shift) and their philosophy seems to be evolving faster now.

What I really have been waiting for all these years is for 'the public' to catch up too. Look at what Waterfoul posted! That is a MAJOR change that has been many, many years in the making. Getting more regular anglers and people to realize the bass can take care of themselves if we keep the water clean and don't wreck all the habitat. Getting regular people to believe that if you want to fish for bass just about anytime, you can do it. It's okay. Bass can take it. You can enjoy your fishing and not feel like you're doing something wrong.

I strongly felt the last time that we were much farther along the bass fishing attitude change meter with the general angler than a few people in the MDNR did. I was going by the shifts on the other online forums. Sure, some where fighting hard, but I kept seeing more stop fighting, and many even come over to the 'fish for bass more often' side. They were listening and they were truly examining their own inner reasons for being against the change.

It really wasn't until the state survey results came out that my feelings were vindicated. Maybe even in a bigger way than I hoped? I'm not sure how much of me wanted it to be as big a shift as I hoped verses how much of me really believed the shift was that big. Regardless, the survey was the game changer because so many regular anglers said, 'yes, we want to fish more for bass.'

The next step I felt was just as necessary and that was to allow a few seasons of bass fishing to convince some of the entrenched against change to see the bass weren't all wiped out and more importantly, for the anxious 'what if we're wrong crowd' to see the same thing. For some people, we could talk about the need for more studies and how many seasons before we're sure for another 20 years but I really have felt it would take 5 years or less before enough additional people finally realize that all those studies and all those other state fisheries people really do know what they're doing.

So, the real questions are: 1) has it been long enough to swing a significant chunk - increase - of regular anglers to the truth - that bass seasons have been proven to be ineffective in protecting bass populations anywhere? - Waterfoul's post is a small but good news example of what I've been waiting to see; and 2) What percentage of all anglers swung over to the scientific truth  or just want to fish more side of bass management is enough to get us how far without having another 2 year battle?

I think the answer to #1 is yes, it has been long enough for a very good number of anglers whether they believe science or just now feel 'what the heck - bass fishing is pretty good and I'd like more opportunity to do it.'

It's still the answer to #2 that I don't have a good handle on. If #1 ends up being kind of a landslide... well, that is too exciting to hope for... but if there are still enough anxious or just plain 'we shouldn't change anything to be safe' people out there to add to the riparians who never want more people on 'their' lake and the anglers who will always voice concerns about their other 'only fish they care about' being impacted by a change in the bass season (I'm calling it the fabled poacher syndrome from now on) - especially the organized groups, then we could fall short of any significant change without another battle.

I actually have a really good feeling that we will get one change almost for sure. Maybe next year, possibly the following year. The only thing that would probably kill it would be dedicated bass anglers themselves getting cold feet and fighting it. It might not seem like much but I take anything when I look back at 20-some years of almost no progress before the last change. I will say what that one thing is after the meeting because I don't want anymore people getting more worked up early again before there's any real dialog. I keep thinking we could kill some of our chances before we even get started if we're not careful enough.

Of course, I'm hoping for more. I do like what I'm seeing with the attitude of many anglers on this site, on other sites, who I talk to at the outdoor shows, at the boat ramps and wherever else I run into them. So many more anglers just want to fish. They need to fish. That is good.

Keep telling your family, friends, neighbors, strangers (a stranger is just a friend you haven't met yet) that most states don't have a closed bass season because all of the studies ever done on bass anywhere including in Michigan show that a closed bass season is an ineffective bass management tool. The 14 inch size limit increase -that was a great and effective management method for our Michigan bass. Tell them that many of us want to legally fish for bass more often and that you'd appreciate their support. You can even tell them the last surveys showed something like 80% of bass anglers already voluntarily release their bass anyway. We just want to be able to do that legally whenever we can get out.

It's not important to feel that the MDNR doesn't want us to fish. What is important is that the MDNR needs to hear from lots of people that people want to fish more for bass or have more opportunity to fish for bass when they want to. Things like that make a difference. Not always right away. But over time, yes, definitely.

Truly, the more people tell the MDNR they want more bass fishing, the closer we can get to a lot more legal bass fishing. Maybe without a long, drawn out affair even. That would be nice for lots of people.

[flipin31]

Catch and delay release all year would be awesome.  Makes me sick when I see someone keep a bass to eat it,  I just want to yell out and tell them that blugills taste so much better.

[bigjc]

My problem with the MDNR and many other government agencies is this..."they only get their authority from "we the people," and yet they somehow become Nazis that think it is their role to push some agenda down our throats.  Close bass season is retarded.  There is no example of its effectiveness.  Change doesn't need to take decades, either.

"Give me liberty or give me death."

[djkimmel]

They're just listening to the wrong people (or maybe they're just hearing voices?? ). We will have to make our voices heard more and especially better. Soon. Give me April so I can get a better idea where it appears we are at. Other people are already calling, writing letters and email, and talking to whomever they know in some position of authority.

[1javelin]

My problem with the MDNR and many other government agencies is this..."they only get their authority from "we the people," and yet they somehow become Nazis that think it is their role to push some agenda down our throats.  Close bass season is retarded.  There is no example of its effectiveness.  Change doesn't need to take decades, either.

"Give me liberty or give me death."

I understand your emotions, because I sometimes feel that way too.  But it's the same sentiment you feel when your boss tells you that you will now be working 5 days for 8 hours instead of 4 days at 10 hours.  You don't want it to happen because it affects you negatively, he though has done the work and run the figures to know what is going to work best in the long run.  In this case it's based on history and not on scientific proof, but that's how a lot of old programs are done as well.  The guys behind these rules don't want to make a mistake and risk the backlash of it, even though it's proven not to have a negative effect.  Get some guys like Dan together that have put in the leg work and face time and book (research) reading time and we can get it changed.  Talk with your anger and they'll only do what every one of us would do, fight back.

1jav

[thedude]

My problem with the MDNR and many other government agencies is this..."they only get their authority from "we the people," and yet they somehow become Nazis that think it is their role to push some agenda down our throats.  Close bass season is retarded.  There is no example of its effectiveness.  Change doesn't need to take decades, either.

"Give me liberty or give me death."

I understand your emotions, because I sometimes feel that way too.  But it's the same sentiment you feel when your boss tells you that you will now be working 5 days for 8 hours instead of 4 days at 10 hours.  You don't want it to happen because it affects you negatively, he though has done the work and run the figures to know what is going to work best in the long run.  In this case it's based on history and not on scientific proof, but that's how a lot of old programs are done as well.  The guys behind these rules don't want to make a mistake and risk the backlash of it, even though it's proven not to have a negative effect.  Get some guys like Dan together that have put in the leg work and face time and book (research) reading time and we can get it changed.  Talk with your anger and they'll only do what every one of us would do, fight back.

1jav

well, not really - you work for your boss, in terms of gov't *we* are supposed to be the boss.  If everyone in america stood up and voted to dump toxic waste into lake michigan, then i would expect our govt to warn us but do it anyway... that's kind of the point.

[Jmcfarland]

I'm with flipin31. I saw a guy keep a 5lb largie and kill it in the middle of August on Fletcher Floodwaters. He didn't say anything about mounting it (which is the only half way logical thing I can see keeping that for). He took it back to the campground and was cleaning it when I seen him. At least it got cleaned. I don't know how you could stand to eat it. 85 degree water and the middle of summer? I could have cut off a stump,ground up some seaweed and used mud for a sauce and had the same tasting meal. Did I mention he had a nice mess of bluegill on top of this. Some peoples kids.

[djkimmel]

Some people, even some dedicated bass anglers, do tell me they like the taste of bass. I'm not a big fish eater but I do prefer the taste of walleye, perch and other panfish when I do. Never like pike much but I know a number of people who love the taste of pike.

I have nothing at all against people who legally keep fish they catch that they will eat and not waste. That is their right and we have regulations to monitor that in place. I happen to think smaller fish taste better than large ones but that isn't the same for everyone. Some fish in some lakes need to be culled out. There are a few studies about catch and release going to far... but that is definitely a topic for another day and purpose.

On some lakes, I do believe it would be better to release the larger bass, but I rarely say something about that to someone who is exercising their legal rights. How many people actually do that? How many are too much? That is different for every lake. I figure the best I can do is mention on here once in a while that it may help make for better fishing for everyone to keep the smaller bass and release the big ones. It does have a slow building effect overall.

Catch and release of bass has really grown in Michigan to a the point where the majority of all bass anglers report that they practice it. That is a pretty good deal.