Michigan Bass Season POLL

[Waterfoul]

Great point Dan.  I just want to be able to practice catch and release ALL year!  

[Waterfoul]

The results on the "other" site that this poll is on:

70.99% of all people who have voted as of today believe there should be a change to the regs. Only 29.01% believe it should stay the same as it is today.  I'd call that an overwhelming majority in favor of change.

[djkimmel]

If it is that big ole site I used to hang out on, those are pretty impressive numbers compared to the 'fight' I had on there the last time we worked on changing the season. 'Debates' were intense is one way to put it.

I really do think the new season has rolled over quite a few people who held out before for less than clear or reasonable reasons. That's what I'm betting on anyway.

I don't have the time for lots of debate this time so I'm avoiding getting in on this on other websites. I don't think it is real necessary. At least not yet.

[Waterfoul]

That's the site Dan.  I'm impressed with the numbers as well.  That site has a lot of "multi-species" or non-bass fisherman on it and I'm sure those guys (some of whom I know)  are skewing the results a bit too.  Probably closer to 80-85% of the bass fishermen there are in favor of change.  You may not frequent the site very often but you can use these results along with the results on GLB to impress the decision makers in the DNR.  The vast majority of fishermen in Michigan are in favor of a change to the bass season.  Of that majority the highest % is for NO closed season at all.  Yes! 

[djkimmel]

That is impressive. I would imagine it has already been noted but I will definitely point out any indications of large numbers of anglers wanting more bass fishing because that is what the MDNR needs to see and hear to feel like a change will be a good thing for them.

What a fight they gave me on that site for a while. They even sicked the then owner on me but they weren't arguing from knowledge and the support increased for more bass fishing even on that site at that time. I did receive lots of nice PM's and email from their members during that time.

I just don't have time to hang out on a bunch of websites. I used to get messages from some of the mods over there about wayward bass anglers who needed my help. That was actually nice of them. Hasn't happened in quite a while. I think the crowd has evolved over there some from when I used to be on there from what I see and hear.

If you see any other polls on any other websites, send me a message about them so I can take a look. I don't want to start any this time and get into a bunch of debate like last time. I just don't think it is necessary now and I want to conserve time.

[Mojo]

Dan, your own site shows 97% want a change. I'm holding with my Mojo proposal through the end of May. If we don't hear anything, I hope to begin working with my local state rep to build a bill for 2014 fishing season.

It's time to open the season to allow spring bass fishing.

[Skulley]

Dan, your own site shows 97% want a change. I'm holding with my Mojo proposal through the end of May. If we don't hear anything, I hope to begin working with my local state rep to build a bill for 2014 fishing season.

It's time to open the season to allow spring bass fishing.

Hear, Hear.  I am already working on mine.


BD                                     

[flipin31]

Hey Dan did you have your metting yet?  If so how did it go?

[ROI Outdoors]

Hey Dan did you have your metting yet?  If so how did it go?

I don't think it was very awesome.......

[djkimmel]

I went to a meeting. I was a guest with someone I'm working on a project with. I wasn't sure as a guest what I was allowed to do since you normally can only ask questions if you are an appointed member of these citizen advisory committees. I'm still thinking about what to say about it publicly. There's not much to say yet.

I'm hoping for a follow up discussion with MDNR Fisheries in a few weeks. That was the end result of some of the discussion at the meeting on bass and seasons.

There were many people there from the MDNR including fisheries, wildlife and parks and rec. There were a couple people there for part of the meeting from the ODNR including the top Lake Erie fish biologist and their new fisheries chief. They left before the discussion about the Lake St. Clair bass season. There were many people there from various fishing and outdoor groups. Paul Sacks was there for the B.A.S.S. Federation Nation. He is a member of the committee.

Lots of topics covered. I have 9 pages of notes mostly on other specific topics. Some of that may interest some of you so I will share if I can get to it. I've been talking to some business people about the meeting, getting advice, things like that.

I did get to speak some during the discussion about the Lake St. Clair bass season. The committee chair said I could. For now, the only helpful thing to report is that the acting MDNR fisheries chief said he would contact Paul Sacks and I in 2 to 3 weeks to discuss. He took my email address. They are holding statewide meetings right now on pike and muskie regulations and he said that is keeping their limited staff (budget cuts) very busy already. I'll let everyone know if and when we have this discussion.

I talked to Dave Reault for TBF and got his input. I will talk to Paul to get a better idea what the federation nation is looking for. And then, hopefully we have this next discussion.

I do know that we are still pursuing more major fishing tournaments for Lake St. Clair as one part of an overall effort to get more people to think of all the great things that set of waters has to offer the outdoors person.

[Skulley]

Thanks DK. Let me know if there is any way I can pitch in to help.


BD.                       

[Waterfoul]

I still don't get why there would be any real opposition to opening the season up.  They do nothing to protect bass now, other states and some of their own studies have proven there is no adverse effect to fishing for them all year long, and it would do a lot of good for the economy.  It's the "old way" of thinking and the lack of "listening to all the data" that keeps it closed.

I would like to know the exact reasons why the MDNR has ANY issue with opening the season.  My bet is it is based on politics just like our current bass season.  Sad for sure.  Especially after you look at the data from the two recent polls on the two biggest fishing websites in the state about what the fishing public would like to see.

[ROI Outdoors]

I still don't get why there would be any real opposition to opening the season up.  They do nothing to protect bass now, other states and some of their own studies have proven there is no adverse effect to fishing for them all year long, and it would do a lot of good for the economy.  It's the "old way" of thinking and the lack of "listening to all the data" that keeps it closed.

I would like to know the exact reasons why the MDNR has ANY issue with opening the season.  My bet is it is based on politics just like our current bass season.  Sad for sure.  Especially after you look at the data from the two recent polls on the two biggest fishing websites in the state about what the fishing public would like to see.

They aren't to fond of tourney's........

[djkimmel]

Ding ding ding ding ding... I think we might have our winner. Working on it. Trying to balance what to do next between a number of parties. Studies, facts, figures, all that doesn't mean much to some people depending upon what the real issues are. I'm not just talking about the MDNR there. I usually never am - there's lake associations, riparians, naturalists, environmentalists, sentimentalists, wilderness people, non-anglers, animal lovers, you name it. Depending upon someone's beliefs, quite a few different things can entrench them that have nothing to do with science, getting people into fishing and the economy.

The good news is: Bass anglers want to fish. More than enough know we could. I've mentioned the patience is low thing already to some people. There are people and groups who desperately need more anglers fishing and the MDNR is one of them. It is just a matter of figuring out the easiest path (if there ever is such a thing when dealing with change) through the real obstacles and getting on that path.

I haven't figured out that path yet. Right now, considering the different parties involved and the different comfort levels, I'm still letting things unfold a little more while I gather information and involved parties. We have to see if we can get a pretty strong consensus and what that would be. Then, how close is it to the path and how do we get off the path we're on now and onto the path that will actually work.

Who knows? Maybe the right people will come around? Maybe the right people will push the right buttons and remove an obstacle or two? Maybe the obstacles aren't even really there? Still lots of possibilities. I know I don't have time or the free stress for another big fight. There will have to be another way this time.

I'm open to any ideas. I don't need studies. They are already out there for people willing to look at them. Obviously, to any intelligent person there are reasons why statewide closed seasons for game fish are rare in this country. I will have plenty of information on how much competitive fishing can bring into communities and I'm gathering the latest information on things that get more people to fish and buy fishing licenses, especially youth.

This is all time-consuming and I have to work on websites so I can pay bills. Since some people may not care about this type of information anyway and it might not be needed depending upon how things go in the next few weeks with several possibilities, I can only put so much time into it. The ideas I need are more about influence. Maybe connections to reasonable people in leadership positions. Business people who are open to information about how they can bring more tourism into their communities by having more fishing - a more welcoming attitude to all anglers who will boost tourism directly and indirectly through drawing more and wider attention to their local natural resources. Those should be helpful.

I think that may be the path to getting some things fixed. When you involve new people who are less familiar with certain specifics of fishing, there's a learning curve though too. Time to build a relationship. I've started on that in a few different directions but anyone can help in this area.

Some of you have stated in the past that you are friends with or have good connections to leadership type people in Michigan. If you do, please send me some information on who, how to contact them and if you know if they know anything about the modern fishing scene. That might become helpful. It usually doesn't hurt to have friends in high places. We might not need it but you never know.

And as I've always told you, it never hurts to be nice and courteous to the people you meet in the outdoors. Say hi. Talk to them about what you're doing. The more people know about each other, what they do and why they do it, the less it becomes scary change. I had a talk earlier today with one of my neighbors who has never fished a tournament in his long life yet he asked me why Michigan doesn't promote more big tournaments. He said, 'don't they know they bring in a lot of money into the economy, money that helps everyone in the economy?' I replied, 'I guess we haven't taught them enough yet. But I'm working on it.'

You all keep working on it too. Don't butt heads with people who won't listen. I did way too much of that 7-8 years ago. Wish I had all that time back... I even did a little bit of it the other day. It really is a waste of time. There are receptive people out there who are open to 'new' ideas and changing times. I recently did a round-about tour of various Michigan fishing forums and it reminded me how much anglers and hunters fight amongst themselves. We really need to start putting some effort into reducing that. Our natural resources really need us.

Find receptive people and help them understand. We're all anglers who care about the outdoors and the environment. We have more in common than we have different. We need to all (all anglers, all types of anglers) be working together to figure out if there are ways to get more people out fishing. If you aren't ever involved in any youth fishing projects, make a pledge to help out at least one this year. I know many of you do, but we can do more because we're more organized and communicate more with each other. When you do something to get youth or new anglers out, tell people about. You can pass the idea along that way. It's too easy to 'get busy' and not do anything. We can't afford too much of that.

I hope I have something more specific to share in a few weeks. I hope I can resist the urge to butt heads. It really is a waste of valuable time. I've spent the last few days talking about that to smart people who are equally invested in the  outdoors in many different ways to figure out how.

[Waterfoul]

Well, as the manager of a business that depends 100% on the boaters in this state actually USING their boats... a longer season would definitely help my bottom line.  We have 14 stores in Michigan alone and they would ALL benefit from the longer season.  Maybe not right away, but in the long run it would be good for all 14 stores for sure.

I'm sure the same can be said of any business that depends on the boating public and their needs.  Bait shops, local gas stations, local restaurants, sporting good stores, etc...

When I travel I often look for local restaurants to eat in instead of fast foods, buy gas for the boat when I get there instead of trailering all that weight.  I shop in local bait stores.  Overall,  I like to spend local.

[bigmojet]

I work for a company that owns 100 gas stations as well as wholesale fuel to another 100+ stations and marinas from SW Michigan all the way to the Soo in the UP.

Most of our stations we own/service are in smaller towns and we couldnt survive on just the locals. We rely on tourism and the people who head north to recreate on the lakes,rivers and land in these areas.

The March and April periods are usually the lulls in business for our company as we are between snow/winter sports and the anticipation of spring sports and people coming up north to open cottages.

This was a rare winter early spring with the warm temps but I guarantee if we had an open bass season we would have had more traffic in the north.

[djkimmel]

These are the exact kinds of messages I need help getting to the right ears. Working on that too. I cannot believe when someone tries to tell me a longer bass season won't mean much of a difference for our economy, or worse, that they don't care! I think anyone in their right mind cares about this. I know I do!

More opportunity often does mean more fishing, more anglers, more license sales, more tourism dollars into an economy that needs it. Studies have shown that the closer you get to summer before many people fish for the first time, especially parents, the more likely they are to get busy with the kids out of school, other things and just decide 'heck, summers already part way over I'll just skip buying a license this year and try again next year.' The kids play their sports, video games, etc. and no one takes them fishing. Another year goes by for those families with no fishing. Eventually, they just stop thinking about it.

I have absolutely no doubt that many more people would have gone fishing during that amazing warm spell if it had been legal to fish for the most popular game fish in Michigan - the bass. That first warm spell movement of bass is one of the best times to catch a real trophy. Gary Towns of the MDNR used to talk to me about this very topic in the good old days. He would tell me about all the big bass they were catching in shallow nets meant for prespawn muskies on a brood lake in Southern Michigan. As a young bass angler, I found it so interesting to hear a Michigan fisheries biologist verify with enthusiasm the then not so commonly covered subject of big bass moving super shallow during the very first warm spell at ice out even on Michigan lakes!

People used to always complain about how those 'southern' bass magazines only covered subjects that didn't pertain to bass 'up north.' I was already starting to see with my own observations that this wasn't really true. These particular discussions with Gary Towns were some of my earliest found information helping to confirm my own suspicions - a bass is a bass is a bass. There might be some differences sure, but there was more in common. If KVD hasn't proved that to the world by now, I don't know what will.

I used to start fishing Michigan every year near the end of March, beginning of April. Quit doing that when we finally got a partial catch and release season as a gesture of goodwill (I was tired of 'guilt by bass boat' too no matter what I was fishing for). If it was legal to bass fish whenever this first warm spell hits, how many more people would have bought a fishing license and escaped cabin fever with some bonus fishing!?! And of these additional anglers, how many might be more likely to get their kids out fishing if they bought their fishing license early? I'm pretty confident it is more than none.

Right now, we have none. We have the people who will go fishing no matter what each year, and we have all the other people who would like to go fishing but choose to follow the law and the people who don't think about fishing much until they get caught up in summer and maybe choose fishing, maybe choose baseball, golf, soccer, swimming, whatever instead. We all (anglers, MDNR, outdoors business, tourism, natural resources - our true future) need more. The bass anglers need more. The businesses and economy need more. The MDNR needs more. The future of fishing needs more. Not the same. The same is 4% decline in Michigan fishing license sales each year recently! 30% less Michigan anglers / fishing licenses sold now compared to only a dozen years ago! More. We need more.

We cannot afford the same. Which is actually less (see above). I hope the right people figure this out pretty soon.

[jgip087]

If the DNR used proven research then we would have an open season all year.  The thing that effects fish populations is allowing for lakes to be chemically treated for weed kills. Whenever this happens, the oxygen level of a lake is depleted (to the point where if entire lakes are treated at once you would see massive fish die offs) and cover is lost that is crucial for forage development and sustainability.

[Waterfoul]

You know Dan... it still baffles me that our "educated" leaders and politicians can't see the forrest for the trees.  So much good information, so much being ignored.

[thedude]

Another good question to ask the DNR would be in regards to the blatant disregard by a high number of individuals to the current catch & release dates.  Most of the people who 'fish-early' are in every other aspect model citizens (at least in the DNRs eyes). We're not harvesting and keeping tons of fish, not poaching for the freezer or over-limiting..... we follow boating laws and buy licenses EVERY year, etc.  Seems like the laws have taken a stance that really just takes an otherwise law abiding and conscientious angler and turns them into an outlaw for causing no actual harm to anything.   

What do "bass" really cost the DNR? There's no stocking, no special enforcement and many anglers don't even keep the fish. This isn't put-and-take fishing like salmon, trout, musky and walleye - bass are prolific with no help from the DNR at all (ie at the lowest cost to the DNR possible for a game fish). I can't imagine the DNR wants to ban or fine the guy that comes back year after year to buy a license just to fish for a species that is self-maintaining.

As a tangent - What the h*** is up with them doing surveys on pike? Seriously.... its just a kick in the nuts that pike are getting more attention than this. We'll probably see a push for better carp regs next.