Spot Ethic question.

[dartag]

i bet he is down on erie by Ennis Reef markin the spot he found i took Kev to.  that was a fun ride.

[MaizeNBlue]

Wow, I never ment to start up anything contriversal, really. I was just curious what everyone's else thought about it. Like I said, I passed up the spot that the tx was won on again this year. I did see the winner fish in that area last year, didn't know exactely where he was, and I have started fishing over there some, learning what was down there. I figured he would be back there, and I knew Kev was going to be close to the area, so I figured it was best to stay away. Since PB and I fish Kent so much, I always ask him before the tx, where he is going to start, so I stay away from him, plus I would say that 90% of what I have learned on Kent is from what PB either showed me, or we figured out together. It is my opinion, unless the area is a community hole say....the Firecracker, that a spot should be left to the "owner" if you know that person is going to fish it.

I can give an example of what happened to me on Cass. 2 years ago, a boater tailed me to a spot I like to fish. The boater had never been on the water before, and knew I had fished it before, in fact he was joking around at the dock, saying he was going to follow me, was I happy no, but what can you do. He fished about 50 yds from me, just around a point. Well he won the tx and won it again the following year fishing that spot. Is it mine? Is it his? Can't say I know for sure, but I won't fish that exacect spot against him, out of common respect.

And Dartag, I promise you this on all that is holy!!!!!! I will never go to where ever you draged Kev and I to on Erie again!!! Honestly, don't think I could my back could take the trip.....unless it was a sheepshead tx. then we might need to talk. 

[csfishslayer]

Well I would like to make a comment about the the non boater. To start I was a non boater so I can speak on this First off most non boater do respect the fact that they don't have a boat . and are grateful that they get the chance to still fish. and on the whole spot thing. Im a non boater that has a ton of spots on a bunch of lakes and never got one from a tournament angler. and to reply to the whole run the boat thing you have the right to tell a co angler that it's your boat you make the payment But in that case you have to remember that they split the gas bill so I guess you could say they rent your time in one way or another. Im not trying to say that I agree with co anglers steeling spots and I would not do that. But i don't agree with all the other statements made about co anglers. This has been a good topic yes there are flaws In the aba non boater program. But I don't feel that you can say all co anglers are the same b/c thats just not true It is hard to be a co angler as a co angler you never no when your crossing the line at least thats how I feel about it . and another thing on the spot steeling you have some anglers that claim every good piece  of water to be there spot I been in boats with guys that every time they pass another boat they claim thats one of there hot spots. well I guess thats enough about that . Sorry if I offend anyone that is not my intent just giving a non boater point .  good luck to all in there fishing ventures   

[McCarter]

I dont think you offended anyone with that post.  It was very well said.  I dont think anyone was slamming all co anglers.  As boaters tho, we have all had 'experiences' with co anglers ( or non boaters if you want to be p.c. about it thank you very much dartag  ) some bad, most great.  I have made some very good friends through the ABA most of which started out as one of my non boaters. 

Perfect example would be MaizenBlue.  He was just a runny nose, pint sized, run of the mill, milk face the day he stepped onto my boat.  In his hand a 5'6" Ultra lite rod rigged with a #2 mepps spinner.  He had absolutly no idea what he was doing.  He caught fish all day, but not one of them a keeper.  Despite my multiple suggestions for him to switch to a bigger set  up and a bigger lure, he just kept cranking in the 8" bass, cursing every one of them as he tossed them back into the water. 

I laughed, he cried, but by the end of the day he was asking me question after question.  I never mind helping so i offered him some advice, which he took.  he can now catch fish on my spots almost half as good as me

I have gotten off subject.  But it was fun.  Even if it was at Maizes expense ( which, i wont lie to you, makes it even more fun ).  My point is, none of us mind fishing with a non boater.  If we did, we surely wouldnt fish such trails as the ABA.  But some, not all,  of them need to realize the importance of keeping in good graces with there past boaters.  Some dont know any better, but some do.  And some do things regardless.  I know some non boaters who keep a GPS hidden away in there tackle bags.  Then they act like they are getting a new lures, and they mark the boaters spot.  It sounds funny, but whatever.  I have had people admit that they do this, and laugh about it.

I have had very few problems with non boaters.  A few small things like casting over my line, or casting to a fish that just blew up on my lure but i missed, then he catches it and wins big bass money.  that was a pretty bad one.  ashing in my boat, on purpose, even tho my boat sucks and looks like a decroded piece of crap.  Taking other boaters to my spots.  switching my fish with there fish while they are in the livewell ( just kidding about this one, inside joke between me and some of the guys ).  Point is, i have had bad experiences but i dont let it sway my opinion on every co angler.  Ooh, i just remembered the best one.  The guy who gave me $2.00 after a LSC tournament in which he missed the money by less than a half a lb.  Ok, so the guy didnt cash a check but openly admitted to me that it was the best day he has ever had fishing ( he was pretty new to it ).  But we caught them all day long, culled dozens of fish, burned probably $50 in gas, and he hands me $2.00.  I rarely even except money from a co angler unless we have a pretty good day.  But this was a pretty big slap in the face.  I ended up giving him $1.00 back telling him he over payed me.

I have been a co angler.  I always asked my boaters what they expected of me for the day.  I was always trying to learn so i could be the best co angler that i could be.  But in my expereinces in the back of the boat, i also understand that it can be intimidating back there.  Especially when you are new to it.  I always take that into consideration when fishing these types of events.  I go out of my way to make the non boater comfortable.  I know some people dont do this.  I have fished with guys ( as a co angler ) who never said more than 2 words to me all day.  Thats makes for a long 8 hours.  I can  never guarantee that we are going to catch fish, but i can always guarantee that we will have a good time.  I have never had a complaint from a non boater as long as i have fished the ABA, and Anthony told me that i have gotten more good things said about me that anyone else who fishes with us.  Does that make me better than those other guys??? Absolutly.  Just kidding.  It just means that i know how you guys feel.  I have been there. 

I dont want you to feel uncomfortable because you are a co angler.  No one is looking down on you guys.  Its just a few bad experiences that have some of us a little more cautious.  But like i said, its not directed at all co anglers.  The things some of us said just meshed with the topic is all.

keep it up.  Maybe next year you can draw me.  i usually get outfished by my co anglers cuz i am horrible at tournament fishing ( sometimes i do ok ) but either way, we will have a good time.  Plus, i always bring enough to eat and drink for both of us.  And, i might let you play with my rod. Airrus rod that is

McCarter himself

[fishon1219]

Plus, i always bring enough to eat and drink for both of us.  And, i might let you play with my rod. Airrus rod that is

McCarter himself

How come you never bring anything when I fish with you. I always end up going home with an empty cooler, a half eaten snickers bar and one pinch of Kodiak in my tin. BTW thanks for always leving my the last bite and the last pinch. You are really thoughtfull.

[McCarter]

Theres never any room in your cooler for me to bring anything.  Thats why i do my best to eat and drink everything.  Im try to make some space for next time.  By the way, do you still have that half eaten snickers bar?  maybe we could work out a deal or something.

McCarter himself

[Cheetam]

switching my fish with there fish while they are in the livewell ( just kidding about this one, inside joke between me and some of the guys ). 

[MaizeNBlue]

It was a #3 mepps, black fury, on 6 lb test, and it was the same rig that caught a 4.3 lb smallie on Cass. Wich I was convinced was going to be big bass, until the weigh in ofcourse, DOH. finished 2nd in big bass for like the 4th time. Also finished in 4th place overall, and ofcourse the top 3 cashed checks, I have only done that about 8 times now! Sure it took 10 mins to get him to the boat, and my boater went back to fishing, before he neted it, but it was a great ride.

[joshimoto son]

I believe that it is neither the co-anglers nor boaters that constitute any of these problems. It is the individual.

I fished the Stren Series this year as a co-angler to learn how to fish different bodies of water. It was like every place we went... I had to learn how to fish all over again.

I went as a co-angler because I did not know how to fish these bodies of water and felt I did not belong in the front of the boat, in fairness to the co-angler and my bank account.

When the Stren Series came to the Detroit River, I had five days of practice with my travel partner. In those five days we fished the following spots. Excuse my spelling:

Stag Island and surrounding areas
On LSC:
     Mouth of the South Channel
     Mitchells Bay all the way up to Wapole
     The yellow bouy in the middle of LSC
     Delphi Channel
The mouth of the Detroit river
On Erie
     The north shore all the way to Colchester
     Greesion shoals ?sp
     The helicopter pad
     leemington
     Grub Reef
     Point Peele
     Peele Island
     The pad out by Peele Island
     and a bunch of rock piles way out off the tip of point peele

I have been to only three of these spots on my own.

Now according to what a lot of people are saying on here, this guy has a legitimate right to say that these are his spots, yes they're big, but he's the one who took me to them and showed me how to catch fish on them.

In general, whether it was one guy or 10, we're talking about almost all of Lake Erie, half of LSC and a good chunk of the SCR.

Am I never to fish these spots?
Do I have to have his permission to fish a tournament on these waters?
How far do we go?

I have seen some very good examples of people sharing spots in a tournament; the anglers were courteous and professional. And yes, sometimes we were close enough we could pitch a jig into the other anglers boat. I have counted 14 boats going back and forth and around each other without one negative word being said.

This does not happen locally.

These waters we fish have been here for thousands of years before us, I truly think that the people claiming these spots were not the very first ones to ever fish them.

According to what we're saying here, if we are zooming down a big body of water and we see someone fishing, we should put a waypoint in to tell us that we should find fish somewhere else and never fish that spot.

In reality... the guy that took me there has some "spots within a spot"
I do not have any waypoints for these target areas and it would take me a while to find them or if ever find them. He knows this.

Bottom Line... There are laws in black and white that "should" prevent us from getting "too close" and harassing the other angler.

Ethics... everything is relative, what one angler feels is okay may not be okay to another. This is not black and white, nor will it ever be.

People are going to get mad if they feel it serves their purpose.

Am I saying that it is okay to drive right in on a guy and pull up next to him and start fishing or mark a waypoint and come back later. NOPE! I wouldn't do it. In my opinion that is not ethical, some people out there think it is. It's public water, and they can fish anywhere they want too. It's not against the law, and if he gets a better draw than the other guy and is there first the next morning, what is going to happen? More than likely some words are going to be exchanged on the water and in the parking lot. What does that really accomplish? A very poor image on the Bass fishing community.

Competition in specific fishing areas is now beginning to be part of the "game". I just read an article in the FLW Outdoors magazine where one angler was anticipating other people finding his best spot he was saving for the last day. He made adjustments for it, and in fact made it to the last day of the FLW Championship. He went to his best spot and found someone else in the tournament fishing on it. That angler did not go up there and tell him to get off his spot, he found a secondary spot in the area and actually got beet by the first guy. His response? ?That?s the way it goes?. Talk about ethics!

In my opinion? there are no spots, there is only respect. Respect for yourself and for what you represent.

I encourage all anglers to learn how to get along better, because the boats are only going to get thicker.

To all? if you see me out on the water fishing an area, you can stop by, and between the two of us. We?ll figure out how to get along.

And don?t be calling me no claim jumper!!! I haven?t even turned the key on my boat since then.

joshimoto son

[canvsbk]

 Very well said.

[Hooksetter]

Hey Skip, I hope your thinking I am the 1 in 10 co-angler that won't share any spots you take them to on St. Clair with anyone else! I wouldn't do that. By the way, I want you to know that the jinx you put on my P-Line only lasted that day. I re-spooled with a different filler spool and I did not have any problems the rest of the year!

Just for the record, I do not fish as a co-angler to learn spots, I have my own. I fish as a co-angler now because I had to sell my boat and it is the only way to participate as much as I want to. Do I learn anything new? Yes, I have learned something new every time I have fished as a co-angler, but I have learned new techniques, not spots. About 90% of the places I have fished as a co-angler I had fished before, on my own. The 10% left will be kept to myself, not shared with anyone.

I am looking forward to fishing more ABA tournaments in the next couple of years as a co-angler, not to learn spots but to learn some new techniques and make some new friends.

I am wondering about something though. When I am able to purchase another bass boat in a couple of years and start participating as a boater again, will anyone assume that the spots I am fishing I learned as a co-angler? Will they forget that I owned a bass boat for 12 years before I started fishing as a co-angler? Just wondering.

Willie

[Skip Johnson]

Hi Willie
Gotta admit Im cracking up as I type this becouse of OUR p line story dude that was sooo darn funny that I told you p line wouldnt handle the shock of setting the hook on plastic worms that morning and then you broke off 4 on the hook set, I jinxed you sooooo bad.hahaha

As far as co anglers go if anything Im standing up for them like I said they come to learn and catch fish and in doing so they also learn spots and as I also stated not one of us boaters havent fished a spot becouse we know someone whacked em there!

Its public water anyone can fish wherever they want just show some respect and for the record Willies not the guy that showed up with a GPS.

Willie its good hearing from you Im sure I will see you at the ABA tourneys, the ABA is great for the non boaters and I wish we could get a few more involved since theres usualy a few boaters fishing alone.

[gbaade]

I will be fishing my first draw tx's this summer. I am still trying to figure things out but the co angler running the boat thing is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Is that really a rule? I would rather cast into a forest of trees than ask a man to let me take control of his boat! Never heard of that rule before and it truly blows my mind. I know I am off topic about "spot stealing" but I had to get that out.


O and thanks Mccarter for a good laugh!

"I ended up giving him $1.00 back telling him he over payed me."

GB

[Skip Johnson]

the boater dont have to give up the trolling motor if he doesnt want to but he may be asked for 1/2 day on the non boaters spots if the non boaters got some, most non boaters dont mind fishing the boaters spots if the boater has a good game plan I as a boater have never had a problem and wouldnt give up the trolling motor to anyone for the most part and I think most if not all non boaters understand and dont expect it unless volunteerd.

[jcox7]

Thats why I fish with only the best.. Ryan, Chad, Andy and Skip so that I have the best spots LOL

[csfishslayer]

Skip man sounds like your getting a fan club. Were do I sign up I want to know some of them hot spots.

[Jason Ammerman]

This is a easy one.If you are wrong you know it. If you have a bad feeling about what you did. Don't do it again. You know if you found the spot on your own nobody should have to tell you if your in the right or not.

If you ever burn some one on a spot you can expect it to bit ya in the @$$ later it's called CARMA!!!!!!

[BASS FISHERMAN]

one times i fine wheer i was chuckin me spinners bait long a wood bank  an FORREST cumes runnin rite up to wheer i was chuckin 
all of a suddin i catch a nice one an FORREST starts rite in fishin he sinko next to me 
thats was me spots for ever  RITE

SKEETOR AN RANGERS BOAT RULE 

[gr@ssmonkey]

one times i fine wheer i was chuckin me spinners bait long a wood bank  an FORREST cumes runnin rite up to wheer i was chuckin 
all of a suddin i catch a nice one an FORREST starts rite in fishin he sinko next to me 
thats was me spots for ever  RITE

SKEETOR AN RANGERS BOAT RULE 

              bass fisherman.....ever here the term "beer goggle's"? i think in fishing there's a thing called fisherman goggles..lol..lol.....u know were they act like they don't see u......lol..lol......and the more the money........the thicker the goggle's......heck..i don't even think forrest can see   reel thick? know what i mean..lol....

[BASS FISHERMAN]

muss be 

SKEETOR AN RANGERS BOAT RULE