Tournament Ethics & Etiquette Question?

[spinnerbation]

This is kind of a controversial topic and I expect a range of varied opinions on this. However I hope we can discuss this but keep it relatively civil.

The topic is dealing with (apart from what the rules state for minimum distance between boats in the tournament) what is the "ethical" form of etiquette anglers / teams should employ in the manner?

In other words, just because the distance in the rules states 50 yards between boats, is it ethical to start fishing the same "general area" that another boat had arrived at first as long as you keep more than 50 yards away?

Here is the example of what I am referring to from a tournament earlier this year.

- Team A was fishing a stretch of shoreline cover nearby an isolated patch close to but separate from that shoreline.

- Team B enters this area and starts fishing a specific spot on the far side of the isolated patch no less than 70-80 yards away from Team A.

- It should also be noted that when Team B entered the area, Team A had the nose of their boat pointed directly at the shoreline, so there was no way to tell which direction they were headed (towards or away from the isolated patch).

- Team B starts flipping this patch and Team A promptly turns the boat towards the the opposite side of the patch as Team B.

- At this point both teams have maintained more than the minimum distance between boats as outlined in the rules, however Team B is focusing on one specific spot as Team A starts to approach them.

- Team B proceeds to catch a good fish and followed it up with another keeper in as many flips.

- Team A that was first in the general area leaves.

My question is (despite neither team being in violation of any written rule having maintained the minimum distance between boats) has either team broken the unwritten "code of ethics"?

In other words was Team A unethical to turn the boat to fish the patch that Team B reached first to start fishing?

Or was Team B unethical for having stopped in that same "general area" that Team A reached first?

Which takes more precedence? An Area? A Patch? Or the specific Spot in that Area or Patch?

If if helps here are the way points of where Team A was and where Team B stated:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@42.6597621,-80.376485,73m/data=!3m1!1e3

- Team A was fishing here:

Lake Erie
42.659736, -80.376520

- Team B started fishing here before Team A moved towards this patch:

Lake Erie
42.659622, -80.377853

- Team A started fishing here before Team B had Moved from 42.659622, -80.377853:

Lake Erie
42.659857, -80.377098

--------------------------------------------------

Was either team ethically wrong at any time ? Neither team broke any official rule, but team A came close as they approached Team B almost too closely before leaving. Any Thoughts?

[Waterfoul]

50 yards?  That's 150 feet, or roughly 3 times further than most peoples average cast.  We have always use 50 FEET as our "safe" distance in all the clubs/trails I've fished.

[dartag]

This sounds like a good ending to the situation.

Most rules state if a boat is anchored ( Power Poles or Talons count ) you have to keep a certain distance.  If both boats are not anchored there is no limit.  As far as the un-written code of ethics I have never seen this.  With money on the line people do strange things.

This summer I have seen behavior from anglers that has me questioning if I really want to continue tournament fishing.  I think part of it is you have a lot of new anglers fishing.  The experienced guys don't take the time to explain something they think is wrong to the new anglers.  The " You cut me off or Your fishing My Spot " seems to come up a lot these days.

My .02

[Dan]

I've seen Elite level pros fish rub rail to rub rail. It then is a case of who's throwing what and who will catch the fish and who won't. Maybe you'll learn something. Generally speaking a 50 yd distance is fine and if you fish tournaments expect this to happen and not to throw a gasket. Yesterday, Waterfoul pulled right up alongside me and never said a word. He said he didn't recognize my boat. What's up with that? Waiting for Waterfoul's response!!!

[Slipkey]

- It should also be noted that when Team B entered the area, Team A had the nose of their boat pointed directly at the shoreline, so there was no way to tell which direction they were headed (towards or away from the isolated patch).

When I pull up in to an area that someone else is fishing, I will always watch to see what their boat is doing as I'm coming in and as I idle towards where I want to fish.  If the nose is pointed toward the shore and the are not moving in either direction, I'm comfortable fishing the same shore, a comfortable distance away.  50 yards is quite a bit of water between boats. 

IMHO, none of the ethics of your scenario were questionable.  What would have been questionable, would have been if Team A had attempted to "claim" the spot after Team B caught a fish or had raised a stink because the felt Team B pulled in on them.

I try to be courteous and fair, but you also can't please everyone.  If I'm fishing a bank or a set of docks and a boat fishing ahead stops to work a specific section for more than 5-7 casts, I'll put the trolling motor on high, make a wide loop outside of them, and continue until I'm 30-40 yards down the stretch.  To me, that gives the other boat space, but also doesn't subject my fishing to being held hostage either - which I've had experience with other anglers doing.

[Flippin222]

Dartag is correct... if they are anchored and trolling motor up, then there is a distance you are supposed to give them the 50 feet or whatever the rules of the tournament trail are. If the trolling motor is in the water, it can make it difficult to tell if someone is anchored. However if people just simply ask or talk to one another on the water, a lot of the stuff could be avoided.

Another point of Dartag's is well taken. Seems like this season is by far one of the worst ones in regards to people doing some pretty questionable stuff. At first I thought it was just the teams that like to fish shallow were doing it to one another, so we went out deep to try and avoid.... low and behold the deep guys are just as bad if not worse. Ever throw out a potato chip to feed some ducks... they all come running. Same thing happens when you catch a good fish (shallow or deep), teams that are close start moving in.

Some of this seems self-inflicted by the tournament trails. When you are on a lake that has 20 parking spots but 30 teams show up, you can almost guarantee that issues are going to arise. We showed up at one tournament this year where the launch only has maybe 12 spots....29 teams were there. Me personally I would love to see a trail cap its entries so that the smaller inland lakes would fish a little bigger. I think you would avoid a lot of the issues we are seeing.

[djkimmel]

Always read the rules for all events and follow them. Most tournaments I've fished only have distance rules under very specific circumstances such as anchored with trolling motor up. If the trolling motor is down they are not anchored and no distance rule applies other than local, state, provincial, federal regulations that may exist for certain areas. Those always take precedence over tournament rules.

I don't like fishing real close to other people. I don't fish tournaments anymore (not regular money tournaments anyways but maybe small events like the MadWags or the bob o frogs only) but I rarely pulled in near someone unless I felt confident I was not cutting them off or blocking them out. I was in the back of boats that did it once in awhile and I sometimes said something if I was concerned.

I sometimes had people still make comments back in those rare situations, and I responded to each rare incident depending upon the specific circumstances.

Example: on the Grand River I saw someone fish a stretch of shoreline working downstream with the current. After the fished through the stretch we wanted and were about 100+ feet away we pulled in behind them and went the other way upstream against the current.

We were about 200 feet upstream when we landed 3 keepers in quick succession. It may have been we were fishing a different presentation, the couple minutes difference, maybe because our lures were coming back with the current instead of against it but we felt we were just fishing. The other boat complained that we were catching 'their' bass even though they had continued downstream and were continually increasing the distance from us. We felt it was just sour grapes and commented that we were breaking no rules and that they appeared to be continuing down river having already fished the area first. They stayed mad but only badmouthed us to other people later, did not protest us. We just kept fishing and did our thing as we always do going the other way and then moving along to the next spot, and the next spot.

In general, I don't do to others what I would not want done to me. Some people do try to act as though others are expected to cut them more slack than they themselves cut for people when the shoe is on the other foot. I don't have to much concern for those kinds of people because I feel I'm practicing courtesy that they are not granting, so who cares what that kind of person thinks. That kind of person tends to always be blaming someone else for something...

It sounds like you did nothing wrong and most likely the other team was not very ticked off apparently though if they were just chalk it off to competition and strong desire (and the common wish that we all probably have to have all our spots to ourselves all the time ). It can't happen but if we follow the golden rule, applying it to ourselves the same as we expect them to apply it to us we'll be better off. Don't sweat the small stuff. Follow the WRITTEN rules. And if someone takes offense, communicate with them how you feel if different and decide in each case what is worth it to do and what is not.

I've had plenty of people pull in on me and I don't like it but sometimes they aren't really doing anything wrong by the rules even if I would prefer they didn't do it at all, but sometimes I say something anyway if I find them casting over my line, casting to a spot I just caught a fish from (and I was there first) or fishing my marker buoy that I'm still fishing too - that kind of thing to me is unethical even it a rule is not broken.

If I really want a spot to myself bad enough I can anchor and lift up my trolling motor but that can be unethical such as if I'm not the first person there, or I try to block off a channel or canal. Many circuits have rules against those kinds of things too, and they should, so everyone knows what common sportsmanship and ethical behaviors they are expected to practice.

[djkimmel]

Dartag is correct... if they are anchored and trolling motor up, then there is a distance you are supposed to give them the 50 feet or whatever the rules of the tournament trail are. If the trolling motor is in the water, it can make it difficult to tell if someone is anchored. However if people just simply ask or talk to one another on the water, a lot of the stuff could be avoided.

Another point of Dartag's is well taken. Seems like this season is by far one of the worst ones in regards to people doing some pretty questionable stuff. At first I thought it was just the teams that like to fish shallow were doing it to one another, so we went out deep to try and avoid.... low and behold the deep guys are just as bad if not worse. Ever throw out a potato chip to feed some ducks... they all come running. Same thing happens when you catch a good fish (shallow or deep), teams that are close start moving in.

Some of this seems self-inflicted by the tournament trails. When you are on a lake that has 20 parking spots but 30 teams show up, you can almost guarantee that issues are going to arise. We showed up at one tournament this year where the launch only has maybe 12 spots....29 teams were there. Me personally I would love to see a trail cap its entries so that the smaller inland lakes would fish a little bigger. I think you would avoid a lot of the issues we are seeing.

How to you field 29 teams if there are only 12 parking spots??

[Flippin222]

How to you field 29 teams if there are only 12 parking spots??

They were shuttling teams from the ramp parking lot to another local lot (either church, grocery store, or larger DNR lot). As long as they keep one parking spot open, then the DNR will let people still enter the ramp (if there is a DNR person there). At some of the tournaments during the week, I have shown up 90 minutes prior to the start of the tournament only to find the ramp full and that they are already shuttling people.

[djkimmel]

That is an interesting solution to a challenging problem. In many cases our public access sites have been built smaller to appease the riparians so that can be part of the problem sometimes. Maybe tournaments should be capped to match a set percentage of the ramp parking lot...? Or maybe we need to keep working on improving public access...? Well, I'm off topic now.

[spinnerbation]

How to you field 29 teams if there are only 12 parking spots??

They were shuttling teams from the ramp parking lot to another local lot (either church, grocery store, or larger DNR lot). As long as they keep one parking spot open, then the DNR will let people still enter the ramp (if there is a DNR person there). At some of the tournaments during the week, I have shown up 90 minutes prior to the start of the tournament only to find the ramp full and that they are already shuttling people.

We ran into this problem also for the Sundown Showdown events I've run in the past. We started out small but grew over time and now the facility we have been using couldn't accommodate the number of rigs we brought out. So the owners of the marina / campground shuttled anglers back and forth from their secondary parking lot outside the main grounds. They didn't have to so we thanked them for offering to do so. 

[dartag]

Looks like it happens to the big guys too.

http://www.bassfan.com/docktalk_article.asp?id=14955&t=Balog:-Take-it-to-the-limit

[Skulley]

This summer I have seen behavior from anglers that has me questioning if I really want to continue tournament fishing.  I think part of it is you have a lot of new anglers fishing.  The experienced guys don't take the time to explain something they think is wrong to the new anglers.  The " You cut me off or Your fishing My Spot " seems to come up a lot these days.

My .02

I am piece mealing dartag's post here but this is a big reason why I don't fish many tournaments any more from year to year.  My son's soccer is the main reason I haven't been a serious tournament competitor since he was 9 years old but the very next reason was the etiquette.  Fishing is supposed to be relaxing and fun. Tournaments although not as relaxing are supposed to be fun as well.  When that kind of behavior from fellow competitors takes the fun out of an event, it's probably time to get out.  At my age, I don't want the hassle or to fight with anyone.  Back in the day when I was young and spry, I would have words with just about anyone.  Anymore, it's not worth it.  Even fishing for pleasure can bring altercations.  Especially if you're not in the tournament and the person you're having word with is.  As dartag said, "With money on the line people do strange things."


BD                                                 

[Dan]

My sentiments and spot in life now as well BD

[djkimmel]

Just some people. Not all people. Most anglers are good people. We just remember the ones who make trouble, not all the nice ones as much. I would fish tournaments if I felt like I had the time, money and competitive drive where it needs to be to get after it 100%. There's all kinds of tournaments now - something for everyone.