Article on spot stealing

[motocross269]

If you asked me what I disliked most in my first year back into tourney fishing it is the conflict caused over fishing spots.  I saw anglers almost come to blows, run over marker bouys, and basically behave like behind holes.  Here is a pretty good article that kind of puts it into perspective.  I don't in any stretch of the imagination condone stealing someones spot during a tourney, and you should respect a fellow competitors water, but from what I have seen a few guys like to strong arm anglers out of an area totally. (I am talking like a 1/4 mile.)
http://www.probass.com/protips/BassCoach/basscoach25.php

[Dan]

Now we know why there are not only rules for combat sports like football and fishing, but three to four referees as well.

[bshaner]

This issue comes up every few months.  It's usually pretty civil on here but I've seen it get out of hand other places.

I'll pick my side of the fence early on this one...  this isnt the California Gold Rush.  You'll see no deed anywhere to any piece of water presented to any tournament director in any part of this country at tournament registration.

There are only so many spots on any given piece of water that hold fish.  I dont know of any "inland" lake in Michigan that has 100+ unique areas to fish productively at a given time. 

I wont throw mud and leave it at those simple facts.

B

P.S.  Good article Brian. 

[Waterfoul]

Anchor?  You guys drop anchor?  Most (all?) the clubs I fish with don't allow anchoring during their tournaments.

I fish a local club, same lake every Wed. night.  It's about 440 acres, nearly all of it fishable.  We have been known to get up to 50 boats!!  Yet we NEVER have any problems with anglers getting into peeing matches.  But we are not allowed to drop an anchor either... we just fish around eachother in a sportsmanlike manner.  I actually find it fun!!

[WayneC]

I like the approach the article takes and as far as tournament rules go, it settles the issue.  There's no doubt in my mind that there has been a strong trend in the last few years where anglers have fishing more boat patterns than fishing patterns.  I've seen it at every level of our sport.  The satifaction of working a pattern intuitively, backed by study done before getting on the water is more rewarding to me than the idea of a Xerox copy bag of someone else's pattern.  Many times the results don't come as fast, but the lessons learned last a lifetime.

My partner Scott and I were fishing a Saginaw Bay tournament last season during the spawn.  Since it was my first real trip to the bay (Scott had some experience), we didn't really get a grip on the Charity Island bedding fish in time to put it to use in the tournament.  Tournament morning, we were even given an offer to spend the day out there fishing near a competitor who was more interested in the fun in the sport and having some good company.  The offer was genuine but Scott and I had actually worked out a pattern along the bay shoreline we had confidence in, so we did that instead.

The end result was we ended up in 11th place but the 18 plus pounds we brought in felt like a win to us.  We worked a rocky trough and two rock piles all day long, all within trolling motor distance of each other.  There were two massive fish in the area we couldn't get in the boat.  Scott actually broke off on one.  We fished hard and adjusted all day to the bite as it changed on us.  The bottom line is that we have a very cool spot dialed in the next time we go, especially if the winds are blowing hard from the west and folks can't get out to the Charities.

I thank God for a partner like Scott who is focused on being the best angler and partner he can be while we work over the water together.  I'm also grateful for the many folks I've run into who appreciate the resources we have, appreciate the folks who hold the tournament events and who enjoy sharing the experience.  I look forward to getting back on the water soon and doing it all over again.
 

[Skulley]

I am with you on this Wayne.  I believe that it is more of a testament to my skills as an angler if I can go out on the water and put together my own pattern with a topo map and my graph.  I find it much more rewarding and it makes me better out there every day.  I have a friend that would rather fish all my spots rather than look and figure out his own.  Needless to say I don't fish with this guy anymore and when I see him I don't tell him squat.  Last time I saw him I told him to find his own spots.  I have spent many countless hours and unbelievable amounts of gasoline fishing and logging all I have done over the last 20 years, so why should I save him money.  If he was more reciprocating (I hope I spelled that right) and he gave me or showed me some spots, I would be more accommodating to this guy.  Anyway, I have fished with a lot of people over the last 20 or so years and this guy is a rarity.  Most people are way more accommodating than he is.  I really don't think this guy as any of his own spots.  He always seems to ask me why I always do so much better out there than he does.  Go figure.......

BD               

[WayneC]

Guess that touched a nerve (I think I spelled that corektlay).  I hear that a lot from anglers about former friends, even when the ground rules are agreed upon before hitting the water.  I really get a charge from folks who appreciate the help though.  Lately, I've heard of a few cases where anglers have shown thier appreciation with a gas card or sharing other info.  Even though the water is wide open to all, the most decent thing to do is to show respect to someone who helps you by first of all:

1) Not taking anyone else to the spot who might use it competitively.
2) If I really want to use the spot in competition, ask the person who showed it to me if it's OK first.  There are a lot of reasons why someone might not want you there during a particular event.
3) If it is cool to use the spot, always report back to that person about what was caught and on what baits.
4) Like the UAWBigDog says: reciprocate.  Let them in on something unique that they may not be aware of.
5) If using the spot leads to a cash payout...share.  I'm amazed at how little this is done.

There was one spot that I let my subscribers know about in 1999 that was a fun fishing spot for myself and my friends for years.  I found the spot but still agonized about giving it up.  Almost 10 years later I still have mixed feelings about it because it gets pressured and has never really been the same.  I think it has to do more with the low water though.  The upside was that customers and friends would report back to me and I learned more about that spot in one or two years than I might ever have on my own.  The other upside is that that knowledge can be taken to other spots in the same lake/river system and applied to find even more. 

All in all, I've shared over 300 spots over the years and now very few get as much focused pressure.  In fact, some of the "old" spots have been forgotten and are wide open and lightly pressured once again.  One of my rewards is to see so many anglers getting a chance to get on fish when they may not have the time to get deep into the research necessary due to family and job responsibilities.

[Skulley]

Great response Wayne.  I couldn't agree with you more.  I have pretty much always followed the guidelines you laid out in that last post.  It's called respect.  Thanks for the clarity.  Awesome.  I couldn't have said it better myself.   

BD         

[WayneC]

I haven't fished Kent Lake since I was a kid so how's that for showing some respect?

Your approach to showing someone a spot does solve a whole list of misunderstandings.

I would like to go back to the point about the value of developing one's own techniques and water as opposed to marking up spots where the boats are, then going back later.  One part of that is interpersonal and the other has to do with fishing an area because the end result of personal study took you there.  Whatever is best for the sport and the individual angler is good enough for me.  I like your attitude on-the-water Eric.  Look forward to seeing you out there this year.

[cr]

It seems to me this thread got off the original subject , which was the way people can be such butt-heads in a tournament . I've have always said that there are only three kinds of people in the world ,friends , acquaintance's , and butt-heads ,all you got to do is sort them out .If you think someone is acting like a  butt-head ,try to let them know . I will try something like ''Oh , am I in your way, maybe I should just get right off the lake for you ", but I never get into a argument  with them , because as my father was fond of saying, "If you argue with a idiot , who's the idiot?" The best way to handle things like this is to establish the rules before hand in the Pre-tournament meeting , like the article states. In smaller tournaments have a rules committee and let them sort it out . I've competed in many sports from golf leagues to team penning on horses , raced motorcycles and cars and what-not , and butt-heads are everwhere . The question is are you gonna let them spoil your fun ? Or are you gonna rise above there stupidity and mantain your integrity? I think the 90/10 rule apply , where 90% of the people are nice and would'nt want to cause a conflict , and the other 10% are struggling and could use some "direction" in there life . Maybe after being told a couple of times they might catch on .....Who knows , I'm just a fry after all . Now , about sharing spots ,I've had a understanding with everyone who has shared a spot with me that I wouldn't use their spot against them in competition and vice-versa . Spots have a way of becoming community holes after awhile one way or another . And you still have to find where the fish are on tournament day . How many times have you pre-fished and found fish only to come back to nada ? Wayne ,you have shown me more spots on LSC , either you or your books and maps ,than I have found on my own  and I appreciate it , but I often wonder if you have ever inadvertantly exsposed someones elses ''honey-hole". To think a hole is your property is somewhat like people who think the part of the lake under their dock belongs to them . Everyone shares their spots to some extent , with friends , the only way not to is to fish alone and what fun would that be ? No Ben Trodder here Wayne just .......Charles

[motocross269]

What got me looking at this and the reason I started this post was a situation during the BFL on LK Erie..I really felt like a boater was trying to make a 1/2 mile long community hole "his" area...I don't want to get into to much because alot of fellow competitors read this site, but I was blown away by his attitude. If he would have spent more time fishing instaed of driving around yelling he would have been alright..(There were over 20 boats in this area)
I think on LSC most of the secret areas are gone....with GPS and the internet the information flows more freely...It is timing the patterns and finding the "spots" within the areas that hold big fish that will get you a check..

[MadWags]

Just remember one thing.
You can not win a peeing contest with a Skunk.

[WayneC]

Nice MadWags...some solid, outdoors philosophy!

I would have to agree with you cr and add that there is a certainty that many published spots were found at some time, and even yet to be re-discovered someday by other anglers who do thier homework.  I would like to apply your 90/10 rule (I use 80/20 myself) to the spots on Lake St. Clair though.  Anyone who has been serious about pursuing tournament wins has been pushing the envelope for a long time and finding these sweet spots.  The main body of competitive anglers has been starting to encroach on some of these spots, and techniques used to find these spots over the last four years or so though.  This probably explains the shift I mentioned to fishing the boats instead of the fish.  I'll go on record though to say that at least 20% of the viable, tournament quality spots have yet to be found.  The more technology I apply and time I spend out there tells me this.

Your quote sums up the philosophy that drives my pursit to open up more fishable water on Lake St. Clair: "Spots have a way of becoming community holes after awhile one way or another. And you still have to find where the fish are on tournament day."

I can imagine a day sometime in the future, where we have 1000 known spots available but the spoils go to the angler who shows the best judgement under given conditions.  That's real skill.

BTW - Apologies for getting off the original subject but I was browsing and found this very cool post and wanted to keep the conversation going.

[cr]

Wayne , glad you didn't take what I said the wrong way .I just think some people get carried away sometimes . I remember a couple of months ago reading on this forum a man and wife had bought a boat with intention of fishing small tournys for fun basicly and couldn't believe how rude people were towards them . They had posted looking for some one to help them get started and a nice trail to fish . Sure when your fishing a BFL or other bigger money tournaments you must take it a little more serious , but at the grass roots levels , NBAA or small clubs , I think we need to promote our sport . Share the love so to say ........   BTW ....The BFLs  rules says 50yds from any anchored boat ,and a power-pole counts as a anchor as long as the trolling motor is up.   

[WayneC]

I hope the couple stuck with it.  There isn't a much better feeling than trotting out the slowest, possibly oldest boat and coming back with the biggest catch.

Gotta like your attitude about it all.  I can't even drive to work without someone yanking my chain.  Why would it be different anywhere else?  Bass tournament fishing is so fun, so cool and so discretionary.  I prefer to spend my time with those who appreciate that plus sharing the experience with other anglers makes is so much better.  Ready to go right now!

[VinceR]

Just remember one thing.
You can not win a peeing contest with a Skunk.

Dave, is this a "fact based" philosophy, from experience?

[MadWags]

Well.........in short ........... YES.
But it is a lesson best learned from others experiences and taken at face value.
heheheh.