License Fees to Double?

[Bender]

Here is a poorly written article from my local paper covering this: http://www.livingstondaily.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071105/NEWS01/711050303/1002
Don't mind any of the school related issues, the fees are completely separate. Granted it is not real cheap now, but if that money goes directly to the DNR then it is not too bad. A bass license would go from .75 Lucky Crafts to 1.5 or up from 2.5 to 5 bags of Senkos for the year. 

[djkimmel]

This is my on very soon radar to start presenting an accurate picture - our MDNR is in bad straits - we need to help as you have done, to show this is not a big deal considering reality and the benefits/need.

Apparently the only people contacting their legislators are the ones who want to scream about LICENSE FEES DOUBLING?!? I spend more now every single time I go to the movies than I would to be able to fish for an ENTIRE YEAR!! under the new fees. Not a tough decision for me to make.

EVERYTHING that we do day to day, week to week, had gone up EXCEPT our license fees. Should be no surprise that things cost the MDNR more now too. And as usual, they are always the first ones targeted for cuts and receiving less revenue wherever possible. More to come soon...

For now, contact your legislators and tell them the license hikes are a small and fair price to pay for what you enjoy and that you aren't happy having them debilitate the MDNR this way.

[Durand Dan]

Dan,
I agree with you 100%. It's a small cost compared to the money I donate to the many tournament pots. I even buy the all species license to help fund the DNR. Heck just the gas to go to Kent and back costs more than a license!!

[Duke]

Forgive my pessimistic view, but double the price?  I already pay $35 to fish it b/c I'm from IN. If I got to pay $70 or close to it to fish in your waters - that's a ripoff. And unfortunately, it will mean less out of state licenses for your state.

Think about it: if I live in mid-Indiana and I want to go out of town for a weekend or more to go fishing and look at Kentucky or Michigan: look at the license costs: guess where I'm going?

I know I spend a lot to go fishing, but I have a hard time justifying it now as it is.

[Waterfoul]

Duke, sorry you feel that way.  But, if you want to continue to fish in Michgan like you do now... you should be willing to pay more like all of us are.  You will start to notice the difference if the fees are NOT raised, trust me.  As it is, there are no garbage containers at any of the DNR ramps I have used for the last several seasons.  No money to pay for pickup.  Have you noticed the amount of trash at the ramps just laying around?  Over the last several seasons I sure have!!  Next thing to go would be the lights I'm sure.  No money to pay the electricity.  Hope everyone has a good flashlight or alternative light source.  One ramp I fish from often, the light at the ramp has been burned out or broken for several seasons... the parking lot lights work so I know it's not an electricity thing.  There's just no money to maintain the ramps these days. 

I for one would support this "double fee increase" with no issue.  I think $56 is still a deal for all I get.  I fish every season.  Spring, summer, fall, winter.  I more than get my money's worth for sure.

If you want legislation here in Michigan to hear that you support an increase, here are some people you could contact directly:

Speaker of the House Andy Dillon: 888-737-3455 (toll-free)

Representative Michael Lahti: 888-663-4031 (toll-free)

Senate Majority Leader Mike Bishop: 877-924-7467 (toll-free)

Senator Michelle McManus: 866-305-2135 (toll-free)

[Kzoduckman]

I got no problems paying more for my fishing license.  Even at $56 dollars a season it's still a small amount of what I spend on fishing.  But the question comes to my mind is how much of the MDNR's budget comes from license fees?  If it gets other money's from the state will they then be reduced?  Another question I have is how are the license fee's being spent?  I would like to know that my "extra" money is being spent wisely by the State.

The Kalamazoo Duckman

[Waterfoul]

duckman, check this link.

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10366-30397--,00.html

[Bender]

That clears things up a bit for me, I am happy to see that the money stays within the intended group.
Now a concern that I am thinking about is the occasional fisherman, once to 5 times a year. $30-60 seems a little high for them, whereas I think I fished 40-50 times this year so far.
I am just thinking that for us it is not too big of a deal, but what about the more recreational guy that wants to take his kids to Kent or Ovid for a day? Is that high price fair or the hassle of getting a one day pass which will still be expensive?

[fiker]

Raising the fishing license fees is fine. That would help. But, what about all of us who use the boat launches actually buying the stickers for those too?
This past summer I was at Half Moon and saw roughly half the tournament boats there get ticketed for no daily or seasonal sticker.
There's more to this than just the license fees.

[djkimmel]

This wouldn't seem like much of an issue if everyone wasn't caught on DOUBLING!!!! the fees. I'm behind in my homework, but the original fees only showed a few doubling. And doubling isn't much when you consider they haven't gone up AT ALL in 10 years.

Yes, this should be handled differently by not waiting so long that the result is an emergency like state with people worked up on both sides, but it's too late now to fix the last 10 years' mistake.

Yes, everytime fees are raised, there are some people who choose to stop buying and doing, or some who may cheat, but the MDNR needs to be funded and they aren't going to get a bunch of general fund money. I think too many people think that our state will continue to get a 1.5 billion dollar shot in the economy from the outdoors with or without an MDNR, but I've always felt humans use selective memory too much. It used to be 2 billion?!?

How many people still live in Michigan because of the lakes and the outdoors? Enough to make it worth taking care of right. There are people from all over the world falling over themselves to come here and fish. That will not change to any significant degree over a 10, 20 or 30 dollar increase in cost. We've got it and they want it.

[djkimmel]

Heck! I want it!

[Duke]

And doubling isn't much when you consider they haven't gone up AT ALL in 10 years.

I've only been bass fishing the past 9 years and I've seen 2 increases in license costs for me - maybe its different for the non-resident. 

I'm surprised with the cost of living going up that no one else is disappointed that it's going to cost more to go fishing. (And maybe I know it's going to be more difficult to tell my wife that my fishing license is now $60-$70  )

I'm also surprised that there is so much faith in the Michigan government to spend the money where they claim. Maybe the word gullible comes to mind...

How long until it will cost me $100 to fish your state? Do you really think this increase will be the last? It was just a few years ago it cost me $27 to fish MI. Now $70???

And who wouldn't cry foul if the price, of anything, doubled overnight? At least gas only does it a quarter at a time.

I am just amazed at your willingness to spend more in an economy that is increasingly getting more expensive to live in.

I'm a teacher and this will hurt me. Is that a problem for society and teachers or is it a sign for the majority of our society that makes less than I do? But you know what they say; big corporations & rich people run our society.

[djkimmel]

Well, we won't fix all of the world's problems and evils of greedy rich people here in one week. We can only handle so many challenges at a time. I think there's a difference between greedy gas companies wanting to make obscene profits verses wanting to make sure our MDNR only loses a third to half their employees rather than more than half.

Let's keep things in perspective - one time fee that provides up to a year of enjoyment is different than day-to-day costs of things like gas to drive or just going to the movies. I'd rather skip one movie and have enough to pay for the additional cost of a license.

Our economy sucks more than any other in the country, but that doesn't mean we have the 'luxury' of painting everything with one brush. I'm willng to pay more for a fee that directly goes to the agency that has the most to do with what I'm most interested in.

I don't have the luxury either of saying I'm going to let them close parks, ramps and shut down necessary work because they might use the money wrong. I think making sure the money is used right is just another responsibility of mine (and yours). One can't exclude the other. I've always considered that a copout kind of like when lake association members say at almost every public meeting about public access I've ever spoke at: 'don't build a PUBLIC ramp on my lake, it will only bring in more - pollution/trash/theft/ tickets/accidents/injury/etc/etc.

I don't like things costing more than anyone else, but things cost more for everyone including the MDNR and they have not significantly raised license fees to increase their working capital in years. They should have done something gradual years ago, but in this state (probably in most), a number people fight any fee increase as rabidly as they fight any new boat ramp attempt. The cost of running the same services now verses 10 years ago cost more. Just think if any of us were earning the same amount basically now as 10 years ago. We'd be hurting.

Just because I sometimes criticize the MDNR about specific things doesn't mean I don't recognize their position to protect and enhance our natural resources. Criticism (and trying to make sure taxes/fees are spent right) is part of the oversight responsibility every democratic citizen has, and too few practice. That has a great deal to do with why some parts of our government smell at spending. I can easily see though, a direct benefit from the MDNR to my enjoyment of life, and the value. Since the MDNR is awash in general tax revenue, and can't just reach out and appropriate new money whenever they want, they have no choice but to spend the money they do have more wisely.

Sure they can improve, and I'll help as much as one person can, along with other like-minded parties. I also know that our natural resources are constantly under attack from many sources and the MDNR is best positioned to provide a strong front to slow down those attacks, so they are a most valuable tool for myself and other like-minded citizens. I'm willing to pay for and work to properly utilize quality tools.

Part of the non-resident license issue is also being driven by calls from Michigan anglers and hunters who pay more in other states and want the charge reciprocated too. That has been a longstanding issue between various state and province wildlife agencies and government. "You charge my citizens more, I'll charge your's more" basically. There has been talk of prorated nonresident fees in the past - charge more to residents of states who charge us more, but no one really wants that much complication.

[Durand Dan]

If we choose not to fund our Department of Natural Resources we will be cutting employees and resources which keep our access to the Inland Lakes open. Lakefront owners would soon be lobbying even harder than they do now to cut off all access to the lakes to save the state money. Lets not give them the opportunity to take away our right to fish. Pay a few bucks to keep the DNR solvent

[1javelin]

Being a non-resident now, I know I will see my license go up, but when I get stopped several times a year to check my license and measure my fish during a tournament, and people throw smallies in the trunk of their car 3 weeks before the season is even open, saying these are rock bass, and the DNR tells you something like, "What do you want me to do about it?"  That is all I have to say in order to curb myself from another fight that will lead to me surely being reprimanded.  I'm not saying the fee increase is bad, it's not, but use it to make the money from the guys that don't even have a license, not the guy in the 30,000 dollar boat fishing for money with only 8 hours to do it and you stop him and take 25 of those minutes.  I think there are some priority, and or confrontational issues present there.

[Waterfoul]

This wouldn't seem like much of an issue if everyone wasn't caught on DOUBLING!!!! the fees. I'm behind in my homework, but the original fees only showed a few doubling. And doubling isn't much when you consider they haven't gone up AT ALL in 10 years.

Yes, this should be handled differently by not waiting so long that the result is an emergency like state with people worked up on both sides, but it's too late now to fix the last 10 years' mistake.

Yes, everytime fees are raised, there are some people who choose to stop buying and doing, or some who may cheat, but the MDNR needs to be funded and they aren't going to get a bunch of general fund money. I think too many people think that our state will continue to get a 1.5 billion dollar shot in the economy from the outdoors with or without an MDNR, but I've always felt humans use selective memory too much. It used to be 2 billion?!?

How many people still live in Michigan because of the lakes and the outdoors? Enough to make it worth taking care of right. There are people from all over the world falling over themselves to come here and fish. That will not change to any significant degree over a 10, 20 or 30 dollar increase in cost. We've got it and they want it.

What state do you live in?  Is the fishing so terrible there that you have to come to Michigan just to enjoy your time on the water?  If this is true... don't you feel you should pay MORE than a resident?  After all... we pay taxes here and you don't.  I know it costs me a LOT more to fish in Ohio than it does in Michgan... and I'm a.o.k. with that... I don't pay taxes in Ohio so I should pay more than a resident of Ohio.  I guess if you don't like the fee (or the increase) you are free to NOT fish in Michigan.  But I think you will find that fishing in Michigan is worth just about whatever a license will cost you.  There is no other place in the United States like Michigan for fishing... so be ready to pay for the awsome privelage of being able to fish here.  I know I'm ready to pay more than I do now to KEEP my privelages.

[djkimmel]

If we don't fund the MDNR to a reasonable level, there won't be enough conservation officers for you to ask anything of. There's already so few I'm not surprised some of them feel overwhelmed. We have more police in Lansing than there are COs in the entire state.

Guys, we are mostly adults here and should be able to discuss things we may not completely agree on in a way that does not end up confrontational or require any 'reprimands.' I've been involved in working on outdoor related issues my entire adult life so it should be no surprise to anyone that I have strong opinions on these matters. I'm not sure what you mean about priority? I think it is clear where I stand - the MDNR has lost almost all the general fund money years ago even though other citizens besides anglers and hunters enjoy the outdoors, and have not had a significant increase in license fees in 10 years, while costs have just gone up and up. You can't run anything that way - not many businesses I can think of charging the same price now that they did 10 years ago. And the MDNR is important the health and protection of the outdoors that is so important to me. My priority is to find reasonable funding to not only allow the MDNR to continue offering the services it does now, but even to make improvements in areas improvements are needed, such as more COs.

I pay $100 every year to fish Ontario and Walpole Island. For the enjoyment I get out of that, it seems reasonable. Expensive, but reasonable - a years fishing opportunity verses taking my wife to the movies 3 more times.

As far as having enough COs to actually really get after all the bad people out there? Well, that's a whole nother ballgame. There's just not enough of them to deal with all the issues, and the loss in money means only less COs. And if you're out there and they're out there, you may get stopped. It's their job and they can't show favorites. Sure, sometimes it seems like maybe there's some bias towards bass boats, but we do stick out, and they're only people. My advice is always the same about this issue. Be polite. Be friendly and hope for the best. Most of the time, things go well. Unfortunately, there are a few people even in $30,000 (or more) bass boats who also don't follow the laws and regs. It's the MDNR's job to keep everyone following the rules.

[Duke]

How'd your head make it through the door Waterfoul?

[Waterfoul]

How'd your head make it through the door Waterfoul?

The same way you're does.  Not sure why you seem to think I have a big head, I assure you nothing could be further from the truth, but then again you do not know me.  I simply state things the way they are.

I'm just sick and tired of people (in-state and out) complaining about the services (or lack there of) that the MDNR is able to perform (or should that be NOT perform?).  These same people then turn around and complain about having to pay more to keep these services.  The current $28 all-species license is a STEAL people!!!  For those of you coming from other states.... look around you the next time you are in Michigan.  Find another state with as many lakes and rivers to fish that actually produce fish.  Look at all the lakes and rivers the MDNR has to oversee and protect.  If you and I are not willing to pay for them to do their jobs, who will?  Jenny?  Never... she's already proven she doesn't know a thing about conservation or maintaining our fisheries.  Legislature?  To tied up by the lobyists in Lansing.  The voters in Michigan?  I highly doubt it, based on recent elections and votes it appears that we as sportsman are simply outnumbered by those who have never ventured into the woods or out onto those lakes and rivers.  There really are no other options at the moment... either we as sportsman suck it up and pay a bit more or we will continue to lose services, CO's, hatcheries, and ramps in this state.  I for one am willing to pay double... or more to keep the services we have now...  knowing full well that if I (we) don't things will only get worse.

Duke, next time you are up this way check out the Wolf Lake Hatchery just outside Kalamazoo... I think it's one of the greatest tourist attractions nobody goes to.  They run on a skeleton crew as it is... and the State want's (needs?) to cut that down.  It would be a tragedy if that were to happen, both for us and all the fish they raise on an annual basis.  There would be NO sturgeon plantings if this facility closes... there would be much less salmon and stealhead plantings.... and walleye or musky?  They would almost cease to be available if this facaility weren't able to produce them.

It's a HUGE picture that some people just don't seem to be able to see. 

[djkimmel]

I truly don't understand why things get so hot about the small amount of money involved in every attempt to raise license fees, but it happens. When I posted up I did not know about the above exchange - sorry. C'mon guys, lets keep it about the issue and not about people or individuals. I understand the various messages everyone is trying to get across - let's just do it in a way that doesn't immediately incite 'retaliation.'

Yeh, it's frustrating in a way that anyone who spends the amount of money most of us do every year on fishing to get hot over another $10 to $50 for an entire year, but it happens every time they try to raise the fees and we all have a right to our various opinions. Not everyone of us spends a lot, I know and probably most of us are frustrated with some aspect of all the things costing us more.

Let's try to keep the tempers down on any side or position. I've seen some important issues mucked up unnecessarily because of personalities and emotions. In the end, I'll say the same thing I usually try to - I will be a happy person, if we take some of this energy and put it directly towards the issue - contact your state reps and senators and tell them how you fell EVEN if you have a different opinion than mine. We anglers (and hunters) seem continually behind in getting involved effectively.