braided line

[rustydog]

just a question forthe guys that use fireline crystal. Are you still using a flour. leader? I don't have any confidence in a uni-knot with it running through the guides. I'm always thinking I should be retieing instead of fishing. I don't want to spend the money if its still necessary.

[Waterfoul]

Why no confidence in the Uni-Uni knot?  Been tying them for years (leader to braid) and have not had a single one fail.

[fiker]

The rod I used Crystal on last year, was my tube rod.  I use a clasp at the end of the braid, and I always tie my tubes with fluorocarbon.  In the end of the tube "leader" I use a loop that attaches to the clasp on the braid.  This lets me change tube colors, weights etc. easily, and quickly.  (I tie up a bunch of the tubes before going out).

On my drop shot rod, and my shakey head, I use a uni to uni knot.  I also have used it for years, and have never had a problem.

[Flippin222]

When using the "uni to uni" knot; what type and line strength braid do you use and what line strength of leader do you use?

I have never tried the uni-uni knot, but am looking to do so this year.

Thanks

[Waterfoul]

When using the "uni to uni" knot; what type and line strength braid do you use and what line strength of leader do you use?

I have never tried the uni-uni knot, but am looking to do so this year.

Thanks

I try to keep the diameters close if I can.  Spinning rods 14 lb braid.... 8 lb floro.  Baitcasters 30 lb braid and 10-12 lb floro.

[Durand Dan]

Question: What is the value of using Crystal if your still going to use a leader?

[rustydog]

Thats pretty much what I was asking. So since spending money if we don't have to, crystal isn't cheap.

[Revtro]

I think line diameter plays a large role in the discussion.  Crystal is great, but if you're using 10# diameter Crystal, you may as well use 10# Mono because Crystal will be just as visible if not more.  The main advantage of Crystal, being strength and stretch properties.  That's IF you're mostly concerned about visibility.

If it's about strength, think about it this way: Using 6# diameter Crystal (14# test line) will give you way more strength and lower stretch than 10lb mono.  So if you are comfortable with the visibility properties of 10# or 8# Mono, I'd imagine it would be just as ok to use 6# Crystal with no leader, because you'd get all the advantages of the strength and lower stretch with an approximation of the visibility of Mono.  Of course, I'm guessing that 6# dia Crystal is about as visible as 10# mono, but I have no facts to base that assumption on.  Anyone have any info on this?

I'm no expert and don't mean to sound like one.  But a friend of mine is always fishing with 8 to 10# braid with no leader and seems to catch just as many fish as I do using an 8 or 10#Floro leader on 30# braid.  We fish together a lot, so I get to witness this under a multitude of situations and it seems very consistent.  Personally though, I'm not comfortable with 8 or 10# braid because it will break more easily than a 12# Floro leader on 30# braid.  This is especially true because when using braid there is a whole lot more force at the knot on the hookset unless you learn to lighten up your hookset.  It doesn't stretch like mono, so if you give the same hard hookset with braid as you do with a similar tensile strength mono, you'll break the braid more often.  That was a really tough adjustment to make when I started using braid. 

So I use a double UNI knot that my buddy showed me a couple of years ago and I've had no issues with it.  The only time it's ever failed is when I should have been using straight braid in very heavy cover.  I jerked too hard and the leader broke.  But that was my fault.  The knot rarely hangs up in the guides when casting.  So that's not been an issue in my experience.  I just make sure to cut the excess off very close to the knot.  I've heard of guys using a little dab of super glue to keep the tag end from hanging up in the guides, but I haven't felt the need to try it.

The braid is soft anyway, so there just isn't much to be concerned with when it comes to the Uni hanging up in the guides IMO.  There are definitely applications where using a leader with Crystal is a good idea and times when it's great to take advantage of the properties of the Crystal without a leader.  In my humble opinion, I think it's all about visibility verses strength.  Depending on what's most important to you and what the situation is you're fishing, determines whether or not you'd want to use a leader.

The thing I wonder about is if it's helpful to use a lower visibility braid when using a leader.  Do the fish see the line way above lure?  I have no idea.  Or are they fixated on the lure?  If so, then the leader is all you need to be invisible right?  Things that make you go hmmm.  I really don't know the answer to that one.  Or any of the above for that matter... just theorizing based on what I've experienced. 

One other thought: Spiderwire has a similar product which they claim is stronger than Crystal.  So you could get lower diameter at the same strength line decreasing the visibility factor even more.  Not sure how true the claims of line makers are, but here's an example from their websites:

Firewire Crystal 14/6 Lb. Test/Line Diam.
Spiderwire Translucent 15 Lb. Test 15/4. Test/Line Diam.

[Cheetam]

Other things to make you go hmmmmm....If fish are spooked by a line's visibility, why aren't they spooked by hooks?  I would think that if they can recognize line and interpret it as being "bad", then they would just as easliy recognize a big hunkin' piece of steel with pointy ends and barbs as "bad" (whether it is nickle-plated or red)....hmmmmm

[Revtro]

I've often hmmmm'd about that same thing.  Hmmmmm.

[fowlmouth]

Another knot to consider is the modified albright, simple to tie and works well with different line diameters. Also is a smaller diameter than uni-uni, just barely more than double the leader thickness so it runs through the guides without hanging up on casts.

[Revtro]

Any info on where we can see that knot?  I'd be interested in learning it.  THX

[rustydog]

Thanks for info but I think I'll stick witj straight florcarbon. I was worried about the vis. more than strenth. I use seaguar florcarbon for most everything except top water. Trying to get away from some of the mess when I don't pay attention.

[fiker]

I bought the crystal sight unseen and was disappointed on how white it is.  I don't think it's that invisible.

I like using the braid fluoro combo for a couple of reasons.
Braid stretches less, and is more sensitive than fluoro.
Using both allows me to use 14# braid, and 8# fluoro.  Should I hang up on something, I can break off the fluoro, and keep the braid.
I like being able to change my tubes without retying.
The twisting of line with fluoro isn't a problem with braid.
I can use the same braid for several years. 
With fluoro, I have to respool several times a season. 
In the long run, for me anyway, braid is cheaper.

In his first book, KVD says that having line visible to the fish just gets his attention and he's more likely to find your lure. 
In later years, he also says he uses fluoro more and more.

Like everything else in fishing, it's personal preference, confidence level, and your own experience.

[fowlmouth]

Any info on where we can see that knot?  I'd be interested in learning it.  THX

This is the best illustration I could find in a hurry http://www.stripersonline.com/Pages/Articles/article_arby_albertos_knot.shtml

[Waterfoul]

I've always like this site for knots... but it doesn't show the "modified" Albright but it does show the Albright and many others.

http://www.animatedknots.com/indexfishing.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com

[dmills4124]

Here is the North American Fishing Club web site. They are doing a "knot wars" on the TV Show each week. They compete each knot against each other and show in detail how to tie them. I don't remember seeing the UNI-UNI Knot or double uni knot but I'm sure it will be shown at some point. I hope this helps. They are tying to diff lines also.
later
don m

http://fishingclub.com/ExtraContent/ExtraContentDetail.aspx?id=132344

[VinceR]

I believe that there is an example of the "modified" Albright in the pamphlet that comes with Power Pro lines.

I have actually stopped using a leader on my braided line. I switched to Power Pro 10lb test (on all of my spinning reels), last year, and absolutely love it. It is 2lb. diameter, and a Superline comparison test had it breaking at around 20lbs. At 2lb. diameter (virtually, sewing thread), I don't believe that it is any more visible than 8 to 10lb. test fluorocarbon. I have used it Texas rigging, for tubes (deep and shallow), shakey head, and drop shotting with no problems at all. My knot of choice is the Palomar (doubled).

For deep tube fishing, it is ideal. With virtually no line stretch, hooksets in 30 to 40 ft. of water, are not a problem. You do have to be mindful of the line fraying, and knot condition.

[Revtro]

I just grabbed some line and tried the Modified Albright.  Wow, it's a much smaller knot than the UNI to UNI.  It's not too much more difficult to tie than the UNI to UNI.  It's definitely worth trying this year.  Thanks for the tip!

[bigjc]

I gotta go with Rusty on this one.  ON spinning rods I use either mono, copolymer, or flouro (actually I have one rod with braid for dock skippin') non of that tying leaders for me thanks.  I use braid about 10% of the time, always in some sort of heavy cover situation.  My Kistler rods are plenty sensitive enough with mono.  The no-stretch factor can be a plus, but that is where I use copolymer and flouro.

JC