Border Issues

[Durand Dan]

In the USA Today this morning

By Mimi Hall, USA TODAY
Rick Ungar's charter fishing service promises a great time on Lake Erie. But there's a catch — and it's not freshwater fish. It's the Homeland Security Department's new anti-terrorism rules.
When the 2008 charter season begins next month, U.S. citizens paying to fish on Lake Erie will have to bring either a passport or two other IDs if they plan to cross the northern border's invisible watery line.

When they get back to shore in the USA, they'll have to drive to a local government reporting station and pose for pictures. They won't be posing with their fish, but for Customs officers via a videophone connection.

That's because half of Lake Erie — as it happens, the half with the deeper and cooler waters that often spawn the best fishing — is in Canada. The Homeland Security Department intends to enforce new border security rules — largely focused on those coming into the country by land and air — on fishermen re-entering the country.

Ungar and many of his fellow charter boat captains — Lake Erie alone has 600-plus — are incensed.

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They say the rules are difficult to follow, will dramatically cut down on tourism and won't protect against terrorism.

"How does this secure our country?" asks Ungar, a retired Cuyahoga Heights, Ohio, police chief. "I'm not insensitive to law enforcement issues, but these are fishermen, for God's sake."

The rules apply to all the Great Lakes, but opposition is most potent on Erie because the geography of the lake means the best fish are often over the international line.

Some operators haven't decided whether they'll continue fishing in Canadian waters. If they do, the operators will be required to:

•Fax in passengers' personal information — name, date of birth and government ID number — to the local Customs and Border Protection office an hour before they leave shore. The names will be run against terrorist watch lists.

•Make sure passengers carry either a passport or a government ID and a proof-of-citizenship document.

•Send the passengers to a local border protection reporting station after landing, so they can call in on a videophone.

Officers will be watching and doing spot checks on patrol boats and government aircraft. "Our concerns are anything from terrorists and terrorist weapons to drugs and undocumented aliens," says Brett Sturgeon, a spokesman for Customs and Border Protection.

Jim Bonner, whose Sunshine Charters business has been taking tourists fishing on Lake Erie for 25 years, calls the rules "a waste of taxpayers' money."

"It's a shame" he says. "It's just wide-open water."

[dmills4124]

  I think this is the government closing the barn door after the horses get out before they get out.
In other words they will have pictures of a bad guy if he flies a plane into a building so they can point fingers with confidence.
   And thats all I have to say on that subject.
ebida ebida ebida... thats all folks
don m

[dartag]

is this because they are a commercial business??  glad i got my passport already.  be interesting to see what FLW does.

[Bender]

I read the same thing this morning in my old town's paper: http://tinyurl.com/2w9fne
I travel internationally quite a bit and in my opinion this is ridiculous. If they are serious about closing the boarder then why not station guards all along the coast? This is just going to be a hug hassle to the normal guy that is out fishing. Do they really think that this will catch any illegal entrants or terrorists?

[djkimmel]

Just when I thought we were all set for 2008...

[Team houston]

I thought that Border patrol agent who posted on here last week said as long as you don't land or anchor you were alright?

[motocross269]

How is the CBP going to enforce these rules when I don't think they even have a clear interpretation....This is ridiculous...Anytime the government has their hands in something it turns into a mess...

[Team houston]

Look at the thread down in "bass fishing great lakes". It is in the "Border crossing requirements" thread. The officers name is Terry Ruff. I would believe a border patrol agent over a newspaper story.

[Revtro]

Yeah, I gotta agree.  If local border personnel say it, then it's likely that's how they will enforce it locally regardless of how the rules are written.  For the most part, I think our local border patrol personnel are level-headed and will enforce this rule with common sense.  I figure passports are gonna be a requirement in the long-term anyway, so we may as well just stick 'em in the boat and not worry about it.  I already have mine, so I'm good to go.  I can't help but doubt though that they are gonna make every fisherman who comes on shore go to a border office.  I don't see that as enforcible unless you get checked on the water by a border officer. 

A much bigger concern in my opinion is this dang winter.  Is it ever gonna end?  Aaaarrrrrgggghhhhh!

[Skip Johnson]

I put in for my passport today, it was $101.05 at the post office plus $7.50 for the photo at wallgreens.

This will be a problem trust me Ive allready had to deal with this exact thing in sandiego, they have been enforcing that law since 2002 or 2003 when coming back from mexico by boat.
it is a fine not to check in in person at the dock and there was only 1 dock that when you pull up you have to call in on the dock phone tell them your there and in an hour or so someone comes down and sighns you in.
most boaters dont go through it but the coast guard started hitting up boats at the invisible line as they came up and told them to report to customs and they would hit boat after boat all day.

If this was to happen in a tournament running back from colchester for example you would no doubt be disqualified.

[dashaver63]

Going through the check in with border patrol and inspections and whatever else they feel like doing will turn an 8 hour tournament day into 6 or less. Won't that mess look special on FLW Outdoors on Fox! Hope somebody figures something soon.

[Revtro]

Hopefully, since we don't have millions of illegals trying to cross the border from Canada to the US every year, they won't enforce it in quite the same way.  I can see why they'd be much more picky about it on the Mexican/US border. 

[Skulley]

I think we are over reacting on this subject.  I'll go with the border patrol officer on this one fellas.  If it changes, he will probably post them.  I would look for that.  But I am not going to worry about it.

BD           

[cr]

Check out page 14d in sundays free-press. It basicly says the local chief of customs has told the schmoos in washington that this new plan was unenforceable, and he hopes to get clarification by next week .

[huston]

Their is a good article in today's Detroit Free Press in the Outdoor section about  Border issues, security and fishing.   If U.S Customs and the Border Patrol want us to carry passports and call and jump hurdles for the sake of Security, and we do this, it will inconvienence them because they don't have the manpower to handle the calls and the paperwork. It would also inconvienence us too. The real deal is that all this calling and paperwork will not resolve a thing.

[dartag]

hopefully it will all work out.  we have had the same probelm the last few years.  the FLW event was restricted to US waters last year i think.   what it may do is discourage other big events from our area.
i am in the FLW and will wait to get my Canada and Walpole lic until July.  with the off limits period i won't be able to bass fish in canada until July pre-fish days.

[VinceR]

You might also want to take a look at this. This is the "WHTI Land and Sea Final Rule", published March 27, 2008:
http://www.dhs.gov/xnews/releases/pr_1206634226418.shtm

Essentially, what is being said (which is what has been said, all along) is that implementation is not scheduled to take place until June of 2009. While all of the "whats, wheres, and whys" have been decided, the "hows" are still in question. As of today, the only universally accepted "single" forms of identification are a Passport; a NEXUS, SENTRY, or FAST card; or a (recently approved), Washington state new "enhanced" driver's license (or EDL).

The holdup is that they are working on a campaign to make U.S. and Canadian citizens aware of the new border ID regulations and requirements. They are also working on developing a WHTI compliant ID that will be easy to verify (through Radio Frequency Identification RFID), and have security features that will make it difficult to counterfeit (Passport Card and EDLs for other states).

They are taking applications for the Passport Card, now, but it won't be ready for a couple of months. With implementation over a year away, there is time for the convening authority to make a case for "reasonable" application of the regs, and define exactly what constitutes a "border landing".

[dashaver63]

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080330/SPORTS10/803300664

Here is an article from the Free Press that makes sense.

[motocross269]

I just got my Canadian and Walpole licenses in the mail today...I am running with business as usual until I see a Law, rule or official reg in writing....I am not just going to adhere to something the Media or the internet has published...I am sure this will get worked out just like the VHS issues last year...

[huston]

Today, in the outdoor section of sports, the whole issue is cleared up. The article stated that you don't have to have a passport, you don't have to call,  and all you have to have is your regular credentials. The only reason you would have to call is if you tie up in Canada to a port or Marina. Even if you anchor offshore in Canadian waters, you don't have to call or report to Customs or Border Patrols. Just abide by the Canadian fishing rules and we are good to go.