So what happened at the meeting?

[djkimmel]

It's not an estimate. I was on the board. I actually know these things.

In 2007, we had 232 members early in the year with only 15 being youth members. Just my club had 28 members early in the year with a little over 40 members in 2008. We have to reach something like 225 at first to get Ranger Cup, and we got it in 07 and 08.

Membership was a little higher later in those years. Membership dropped off quite a bit in 2009 and was helped much more by a higher number of youth members.

So yes, in 2007 and 2008, less than 50% of the members fished the state championship. It has never been the reason why most members join a federation. All you have to do is look at the history of all federations in Michigan to see it has always been a minority of members who have participated.

[Jighead]

Some of my questions may sound ignorant, but that's only because I don't know and I'm just trying to learn more about the TBF.  I'm only asking them out of genuine interst and they're not meant to be antagonistic.

I've been asked to be on the membership comittee and to help grow membership.  Help me learn how to sell our organization to a non-tournament angler, with tournaments not being the primary reason that most people join a federation.

What benefits would a non-tournament angler see by joining the TBF (and paying $75 in MI, National, and FLW dues).  I looked on the Michigan TBF website, and all of the membership benefits listed are tournament related (except for a few product discounts).

[djkimmel]

Jighead... that is exactly what I've been trying to teach people about what a federation really is. It is too common a mistake to think everyone thinks just like you (the rhetorical you) when, say for example you are pretty much just a tournament angler and pretty much just hang around with other tournament anglers - a small minority of total anglers and outdoors people, and not the only kind of people who make up a federation.

A federation is made up of tournaments anglers, clubbers who are more interested in working with kids, people who want to protect the sport and work on conservation, and people who like the comradery of likeminded persons within those categories or a combination of, mostly on a more local level (the club anglers) - a diverse group of anglers with an overall common interest, but varied key interests.

It helps to take the first step you are taking in realizing, 'hey, I don't know everything so I'll ask.' I ask questions all the time. It is the only way to learn many things. Too many people just make plans and run around without ever asking many or any questions. It's amazing. I guess it is just very hard to impossible for some people to ask questions first, and not just of a few buddies with the exact same interests, but of a broad range of interests. Some people just act. Little or no planning. A good way to fail.

In the other federation in the past, most years less than half, often much less than half, of the members particitpated in any federation tournaments. So yes, there are other reasons they still chose to belong. During years of consistent leadership, and an appearance of a broad range of good works across the various issues, we had (I was on the board during some of those times) about 1,000 members - a great deal of whom were there for other reasons than the state championship or the classic series. In fact, they were quite vocal that they thought those actitivities dominated too much of the federation's time, money and effort.

The board was forced to re-evaluate how we were communicating, how much time was spent talking about the tournaments and even how the tournaments were budgeted. In the end, the classic series was forced to live completely on its own income with no general membership or budget monies going to it. By that time, it had already cost us a couple hundred drop in membership. I always hate to see people repeat the same mistakes of the past when the lessons (should) have been learned already.

I don't know everything, but I have about 20 years experience in being on the boards of 3 organizations through various parts of their history. I'm willing to work with anyone who really wants to work and learn together.

TBF of Michigan board needs to be real clear all the time what money and effort is going to which activities and if they keep looking like they are all about the state championship then they will just be a tournament circuit, not a federation. They will be ineffective as a federation. Don't repeat the same mistakes of the past. Learn from them.

Talk about a great state championship driving membership is putting the horse before the cart. Great state championships come from well run federations made up of a diverse group of persons who believe the federation reflects their varied interests. When we had over 230 members in TBF of Michigan, less than half fished the St. Clair state championship. There are many good anglers out there who get what a federation is and will support it if it looks like it really is a federation.

I chose to stay with The Bass Federation because I felt it was best for the anglers to own their federations and I know a true federation is the best way, especially for anglers in the northern states, to accomplish difficult things like changing a bass season. But it has to be a real federation, not just a tournament circuit. That means people, money and effort dedicated to things other than the tournaments.

Step one is to make it clear that tournaments are not the main priority of the federation. Just one of many activities available to members. If I'm talking to an angler who just wants to fish tournaments and qualify for stuff, sure then I talk about the state championship and advancement opportunities, but not for an excessive amount of time. There are plenty of tournaments already and I know we need the numbers to have a successful federation. The numbers are out there with anglers who will volunteer to help with youth; who will attend an important public meeting; who might make a phone call when needed; who might not be too busy to show up for a cleanup; who will listen to the non-tournament parts of meetings and share that information with others, with their neighbors and coworkers even.

I've spoke at many club meetings over the years and in general, they have wanted to know about the whole picture, not just the state championship. Often clubs specifically asked about youth support. Some asked about club fund raising opportunities. Many of these members will never fish the state championships and other bigger tournamtns with any consistency. They are happy fishing their local club tournaments. I concentrate on why it is important to belong and be counted. I talk about changing the bass season, being counted supporting the conservation work and lobbying for the environment and fishing issues (such as the VHS virus change the federations played a part in). Many times clubs that I personally played a part in getting to join did not even send anyone to the state championship or maybe 1 member went, yet we gained 6, 10, 12 or 15 members.

Sure, some anglers will say i just want to know about the state championship. Just like some will say I just want to know what you do for the future, for the youth, for the environment, for bass fishing. That's what makes a real federation. Diversity. Anglers are diverse group.

So, I guess if you asked me for my real short answer, the first thing I would say is, ask them? Ask the possible members what are you looking for in a federation. And then talk about how TBF of Michigan can meet that need (and if you start running in to common shortcomings in being able to meet certain needs, then it is time for a re-evaluation of plans and priorities). Ask FIRST and keep asking. Then keep listening. Spend too much time talking about the wrong things and they will not join.

[djkimmel]

Eric, state championship entries have not gone towards TBF of Michigan's general budget. The entry fees went towards expenses for the event and the anglers. Based on past experience, it is best to try to make adult tournaments self-supporting. Two years ago, the board voted to keep something like 20% of any winnings, again mostly to cover the expenses of the event, not to enhance the general budget. No winnings, no benefit back to TBF of Michigan monetarily. You can't count on always having winnings since most years over the long run, we most likely, realistically will not win.

TBF of Michigan expenses were covered by dues, TBF Inc and partner monies, and some raffle income, not state championship entry fees.

Don't know where that talk is coming from since it does not represent what actually happened in the past. Much of the winnings we were lucky to get back went towards the expense of hosting the regional in 2008 also, not the general budget. Again, I am speaking from firsthand experience, not estimating or guessing or making stuff up.

[Jighead]

Thanks for your response Dan.

You're right;  It's easy for me to be one-sided in my thinking because the whole reason I joined a club to begin with (when Dennis was in Bums and Babes, too, way back in '94...) was to begin fishing tournaments and learn what they were all about.

I've been guilty of keeping that tournament-only  mind-set for too long.  The reason I quit the club after a few years was because of all the extra dealings you had to participate in to make a successful club.  I didn't care about all the other hoopla - I just wanted to fish.

Even when the TBF of Michigan was formed I thought "Great!  Here's a way to fish in a state-wide fish-off without having to take part in all that other stuff.  Pay my dues, show up and fish.  Perfect!"  Also read...paper club.

Now I don't know if it's because I'm getting older, or because my son is getting older, but that kind of mind-set just doesn't feel right as often as it used to.  Call it perfect timing, or whatever, but when Jeff called a couple weeks back and asked me to get involved I said sure.  Seems like the right thing to do.

So now I'm in a position to try to grow membership in an organization that, in all honesty, I don't know a whole lot about.  Nor do I totally understand what a "true Federation" is, aside from a vague understanding about the importance of conservation efforts and growing the sport through youth activities.

That's why I'm asking some rhetorical questions, just trying to understand.  Because from my background and limited viewpoint as a tournament angler, I just don't understand why people are so opposed to the fish-offs being no entry fee.  Or why people would be opposed to the Federation covering the costs of the team at the divisionals.

[djkimmel]

Not sure what part of state championship entries go towards the tournament costs and state team expenses not general budget is so hard to understand? Only 20% of the winnings went back to the general budget and that was all needed to cover the cost of hosting the Northern divisional. Not sure what part of that is hard to understand either? But I guess reality for some is whatever they need it to be...

[djkimmel]

Jighead, I used to want to be a pro angler like many of us. I wanted to fish all the time too so I understand the feelings. We all need that time on the water to recharge and remind ourselves why we do what we do.

Glad you are willing to take some of your valuable time to help out with the other important stuff too now. So often, it is tough to get enough bodies involved to make a difference with everything else that needs to happen to keep the big wheel turning the right way.

I will offer any advice I can if you ask. I would definitely suggest you look into making it to another club's (or two) meeting to find out what is important to them. I've learned a lot over the years from listening to what a variety of anglers have to say and think, particularly the clubbers that many of us don't run into a lot. It is always uplifting for me to hear some of the great things many of the clubs do locally that you don't hear about enough.

Any ideas you have, please share them. Anything you learn from other members, please share them. That way we can all learn more.

[WayneC]

Jighead, A bass federation like this in its purest form is a vibrant group of serious amateur anglers who's common interests and activities result in wide spread value and education to the public at large about our sport at all levels.  From the club level up to the board anglers get exposure to opportunities to serve and build the sport and with the help of members with more experience, learn the means to carry this out.  Someone like you who has the depth of exposure to so many levels in fishing from volunteer to commercial interests can have even a wider impact on new anglers learning to value the sport than you already do.

Different clubs have different strengths and when I published a federation magazine it was a privilege to report on the kids events, conservation efforts and charity tournaments as well as the State Championship.  When you tie in all the relationships between the federation, its sponsors and government agencies, there is quite a lot of good being accomplished.  To that end I hope to always be involved and make what contributions I can.

[djkimmel]

Very nice description of the federation concept Wayne.

[WayneC]

Thanks Dan but you have been doing all the heavy lifting on this post.

There are things I remember when starting with my first Federation club, Sterling Heights Bass Anglers.  At first I wanted to see how my skills (as a multi species angler) stacked up to serious bass anglers plus there were friends already in the club so it was a great outlet to hang out plus get serious about some not so serious tournaments and learn, learn, learn.  Once my first winter with the club rolled around I got a first hand look at the way the club, and ultimately the Federation functioned. 

Back then the leadership in the club worked hard to follow the bylaws for a couple of reasons: One...they created an atmosphere of cooperation where all members worked off the same template, two...Sterling Heights was one of the founding clubs of the MBCF and had been around so long, gone through growth cycles and at one point even split.  The bylaws that survived all of that reflected course corrections and successful efforts to address issues that affected all members.  In turn, the club leaned hard on the President to represent them well at the Federation meetings and also hold the board accountable to a different set of bylaws, but those too had stood the test of time.

Meetings during the winter months took on a whole different tone as anglers stopped fishing and started to "review" the bylaws.  It would have been funny had it not been so painful and time consuming to live through but there was usually a new member or two who "knew better" and put up bylaw changes for a vote that would clearly benefit them personally, or serve their agenda.  What I learned that first year was that there was a core group of guys, both board members or active members who did their best to educate the newbies about how the bylaws evolved and how they functioned.  Not surprisingly, these guys didn't make it through the winter and moved on to cause trouble elsewhere.  Sterling Heights has always been a strong club so these distractions ended up being just that, distractions.

Encouraged by this I became more active by writing the club newsletter and doing the photography.  Not long after this I became more active at the Federation level and this is where I would have met you.  There were some really strong personalities on that board and some lively meetings.  Again, a core group of guys that really cared about the Federation concept and it's members were there and Dan, I count you as one of them.

Other than the usual quirks that come with participation in an all volunteer effort, I consider the Federation experience as one the best parts of this sport.  The fishing experience is a yes, the club experience is a yes but the Federation experience is unique in this respect: All aspects of what makes this sport vibrant, healthy and strong are necessarily active and serve to motivate good people to do great things together.  During the last decade we have seen proof of that in the regulations for one, but one shouldn't have to look too hard to find the proof in both young and new anglers who got a well rounded introduction to fishing and found a home in the Federation and a family of anglers with which to share this lifelong endeavor.

[djkimmel]

Thank Wayne. That really takes me back to my first learning club and what it felt like to be new and getting started. It was a great experience. Still many more persons at that level of the local activities and comradery.

[mikesmiph]

At 52 yrs of age, I am at that point now. Looking for my first club. You guys have no idea what a big help you have been to me in my search. I have been on many committees and boards over the years, and know good ones from bad ones. Looks like a couple of you really helped the fishing community over the years, and I will bee looking for your guidance in the future. Still haven't found that special club.

[cameraguy]

I don't have a lot of time right now, so I'm going to address just a few things.  I really appreciate DJ Kimmel, WayneC, and Jighead for discussing how to make the TBF more than just another tournament organization and I will post about that in the future. Like Jighead, my priorities may have changed over the years.

What doesn't make sense to me in previous posts is the complaint about the State Team not having enough funding and then eliminating the biggest source of funding for the Team...entry fees.  Like I wrote before, it will take 200 additional members @ $25 apiece with their entire entry fee going to the State Championship to make up for 50 anglers paying $100 to enter the tournament.  Does anybody really think that this will happen?  And is that what everyone wants from the TBF, that it be, pretty much, just another tournament organization?  Is that what FLW Outdoors wants from the TBF?  After all, the TBF is partners with FLW Outdoors. 

Also, why de-fund the kids entry into FLW?  The way to really grow the TBF in any significant way, with any significant meaning is to reach out to more kids and get them involved.  We should be recruiting young people and exposing them to the great sport of fishing and tournament fishing. All fund raising that is done by the TBF should be for kids and conservation.  That's it. 

The State Championship should be a vibrant part of the TBF but it should fund itself.  If Team members want to acquire more funding then they are free to garner it on their own (in other words, get your own sponsors), not by official TBF public fund-raisers. I think it would look really bad to set up a booth at BPS or any other retail outlet or show and say that the fund-raising is for kids and conservation when it is really going to members who want to fish without having to spend any of their own money.

Recruiting young people is the key to big membership numbers.  More later.

[Jighead]

My personal priorities are still tournament driven.  All I was saying before is that I can't sit back and take advantage of an organization that provides another avenue to tournament opportunities and possible national tournament success, without getting involved and helping to grow that organization.  How's that for a run-on sentence?   

Looking at the website for the National TBF, it looks to me like TBF is pretty much tournament driven.  Even for the kids.  Believe me, being the father of a 6 year old son, I'm all for getting kids involved in the sport.  But it appears to me that, aside from the Reel Kids casting competitions, it's mostly about tournaments.  Even the Collegiate Fshing program is all about tournaments.  For the most part, what I see from the National level is tournament, tournaments, and more tournaments.

The conservation efforts still confuse me.  At the National level it just looks like the "strength in numbers" thing.  The more members they have in the TBF, the bigger voice they have when it comes to protecting our interest as anglers.  At the local level our 2010 budget for conservation comes in the form of a grant to fund one project (if I remember right from the meeting) to build fish habitat for the Huron River.  Is there something I'm missing?

I'm all for getting kids involved in fishing, and I'm glad there are organizations like the TBF and BASS that go to bat for us in Washington when our interests get threatened by the "anti's".

Rhetorically:  If I don't have kids that I want to get involved in fishing, and if I'm not a tournament fisherman, why should I join Michigan TBF?  What do I get out of it for my $75/yr. membership?

Rhetorically:  If I am a tournament fisherman, why would I want to join Michigan TBF for $75 just to pay another entry fee at the State Fish-Off, and pay my own way to the regional if I make the team?

[Mark117]

BINGO!!

JIGHEAD, You are talking my language. Tell me more...

Conservation, youth, and fishing....we have something for everyone.

Strength in numbers is a big factor.

I look forward to working with you to help this Federation grow.

                                 Jon jezierski
                       membership growth committee

[WayneC]

This discussion is really getting into the stuff that really matters and that is way cool!  Perhaps the following will answer some questions:

For the period that I was editor of a 32 page magazine for the MBCF which came out 6 times a year at its' peak, one topic was overlooked by many because there was a status quo which everyone was comfortable with.  The cost of producing the magazine was significant.  It's not only possible but quite likely that advertising took up 50% or perhaps even more space in the magazine.  This looks good until you examine the balance sheet and find out that there were only a handful of paid ads, and those paid ads were mostly small.  The majority of space was dedicated to fulfilling contractural advertising committments for sponsors.  To take it even further, nearly 100% of that sponsor space was directly related to a tournament trail run by the Federation and then of course, the State Championship.

Year after year I took the lead by researching the financial and intangible effects of sponsor contributions and supplying the board with reports that showed a cause and effect which directly benefits the membership at large.  I knew that somewhere down the road this issue would come up: "Why are we spending so much to publish the magazine?"  At the end of the day, the facts bore out that the sponsorship support far outweighed the publishing expenses.  The road to this conclusion is a long one however and there were some who couldn't wrap their minds around the cost/benefit analysis but instead focused on simple math: Paid advertising - publishing cost = large deficit.

One other cost issue was at the forefront every year and that was a tournament trail put on the by the Federation.  By and large it was self sufficient but there was a period where that was in question.  The membership through the club presidents had a right to challenge the necessity of having this circuit which for all practical purposes serviced only around 60 members or more from a Federation of around 1000.  Personally, I didn't fish the circuit but because of my research, understood the funding position perfectly.  Many sponsors, especially big ones simply would not be Federation sponsors at all unless this trail was running.  The benefits that flowed from strong relationships with our sponsors (tournament trial = more advertising coverage) spilled over into the State Championship and Youth programs.

I know that some of you are in business for yourselves and are very familiar with how some income streams must exist in order for certain services to exist or be further developed.  In many cases, the choice of what works best to provide that income isn't left up to us but is chosen for us by market demands.  We tolerate some things so the business can thrive overall.  In the angling world, tournament fishing drives a huge part of the market, captures the attention of viable sponsors and advertisers, has a schedule of events and the kind of drama that can put a part of the angling experience in the public eye which has wide appeal.  At the grassroots level a larger percentage of anglers carry the water for kids events, conservation and the overall management of the Federation.  It can seem like an upside down set of priorities but if none of the parts get too far out of balance, the system seems to do the most good for the most people.

This soliloquy isn't an attempt to justify any specific positions that are currently being taken within the Federation.  The range is wide and deep and I would rather address each separately when appropriate.  Hopefully, this helps to pull together an image of a framework which has and can work well when members contribute their strengths to the effort.  There is truly no way to make everyone happy, especially as the group grows but there is no substitute for treating everyone with respect.  When everything is functioning properly, rules are followed and enforced, equal consideration is given to all efforts (kids, conservation, state championship) and the value of the Federation experience is a top priority.

[djkimmel]

Funny. I think we are talking about balance as you point out though some people think it is some kind of anti-tournament (funny considering we have run and/or fished over hundreds of tournaments among us), or that we are just complaining and hurting things (what's that thing about free speech and free press, stating opinions freely that seems popular in this country??) when what we are trying to do is make sure the balance is known, acknowledged, understood and truly being considered honestly by new leadership that started out like it was leaning way too hard towards the smallest number of anglers out there - serious tournament anglers.

In the past there were at best about 19,000 BASS members in Michigan. The federation has never been much more than 1,000 members. There are over 400,000 bass anglers in Michigan! It is correct to know your target audience and meet their needs, but zoom in too close and you immediately limit yourself too small to me viable. Wayne you pointed out a more realistic description of the types of members we need to attract to be a viable federation.

I think we want to make sure they don't repeat common mistakes of the past that they had seemed to be making. I wait to see that they follow up recent words with actual action that proves they mean them.

I understand Jighead's latest statements and always appreciate that people state their opinions. You succinctly echoed the dilemmas that have always dogged bass federations. I believe there is a way to balance them successfully considering there are states doing it successful, including northern states. These states have many members who do all the range of things that make a successful federation and they do a lot more than just talk about the state championship. It is a focal point, which is fine considering many of us do enjoy competitive fishing, but it is not the only point.

[motocross269]

In Team Bass at least half of the guys don't fish tournaments outside of Club events...Most of our guys are in our club for the comraderie and to hang out with a group of guys with like interests in a somewhat low key atmosphere....I am fairly new to Team Bass, I have only been part of their team for a few years, but to me they represent what a club should be about....It all started with strong leadership and has built from there.....

What are the percentages of TBF that are Paper Clubs VS Clubs that actually have meetings and participate in tournaments and events at the "Club Level"...I know the Motor city guys do, but I am not sure about the rest...I know EBA was rolling along pretty well but that has kind of broken up..I know Brian's club has alot going on with the Juniors...Wayne, I am not real sure about the status of your club...

Out of the 100 members or so how many are in active clubs that foster growth other than the state fish off?

Not trying to point fingers just trying to get a feel for what may be the root of a problem and where growth could occur...

[cameraguy]

...Rhetorically:  If I am a tournament fisherman, why would I want to join Michigan TBF for $75 just to pay another entry fee at the State Fish-Off, and pay my own way to the regional if I make the team?

Again, for now, I have no time but I did want to address this one point. 

The answer is simple.  The pot at the end of the rainbow is huge.  For relatively little money, the rewards can be extremely high.  Pros have to pay thousands to get the same potential opportunity.  Plus the fact that every step of the way the experience is amazing.  It's definitely worth a few bucks to go through it.

I do appreciate your willingness to discuss everything that's involved with the TBF.  That's what it will take to make the organization stronger.

[Jighead]

Thanks guys