So what happened at the meeting?

[WayneC]

motocross269...What I have is in all respects, a paper club.  For me, it's all about the real issue of having time to participate so what I can do is volunteer for things now and then when opportunities come up.  As for the rest of the club the current system allows for me to give them the opportunity to fish a top flight amateur event like the State Championship.  These guys also volunteer and contribute to our sport in the best way they can.  For the record, Combat Fishing does hold impromptu board meetings with P, VP and Sec. and keep minutes.

I was told today that the majority of clubs in the TBF fall into this category as well.  This can account for many things but to my way of thinking it has just evolved to this point and where we take it from here is what it's all about.  We could have started out with too many clubs interested in kids or in conservation and the issues would pretty much be the same.  The opportunity is always there for any club to step up or board to step up and strengthen our ties to the kids, outdoors, our national partners, lawmakers, communities and to each other.  It seems to me that active work in any of these areas should be welcome.

[Skip Johnson]

With the excessvive amount of tournaments we have in Michigan allready Im pretty happy my "paper" club does not add to my allready busy work, life and tournament schedule, the 6 to 12 mandatory meetings a year that tournament based clubs have is very hard to make and stay in the club, employed, raise my kids, keep my wife happy, etc, etc.

The paper club schedule is great, we meet a couple times a year, we stay in touch by phone, email, chat, web sites, IM's, forums and tournament events, we meet new peaple through each other, fish the same trails and partner up in team tournaments, theres alot of comraderie, sharing of knowledge etc between us so to say or imply that a non tournament /reguler mandatory meeting club is not at "Club Level" may not be exactley true and may be just sounding like your saying "My club is better than your club" in addition if I wasnt part of the club that I am the TBF would be of no use or interest to me and I likeley wouldnt know the TBF existed.

The modern technology and instant communication age is here, the majority of club requirements, bylaws, needs, meetings, functions, etc were created long before the personel computer and times have changed dramatically...I think my clubs better than yours     

[WayneC]

That's so cool!  The wheels are turning upstairs as you rattle off a list of high-tech options.  Thanks for the help and support.

BTW - I think my spell checker is better than yours 

[gr@ssmonkey]

can someone tell me if my club is fishing the state fish-off if we have to be a "subcriber member" of FLW or a "competetive member" i'm geussing competetive .......thanks ......

[djkimmel]

You have to be a competitive member. If you are joining a TBF club, you will have to pay your FLW Outdoors dues through your TBF club to TBF of Michigan.

[MBell]

Hey guys,
With all the discussion over youth and conservation just thought I'd pass this on.  

The TBF's next fundraiser will be gift wraping at BPS on Nov 28th but we are still short about 4 people.  If you are willing to give us a hand it would be greatly appreciated.  With this one fundraiser we should be able to fund our conservation project for 2010 and start putting a dent in our youth funding for the year.

The money involved with this event is pretty significant relative to our 2010 youth and conservation budget.  Contact  President Jeff Cox for more details.  I realize there is already a post but this topic has way more views.

Thanks, Matt

[djkimmel]

Brian Belevender wanted some time on that prime weekend to bring some of the youth kids in. They've done a great job at any event like this in the past. If the board is short on volunteers, they should give him and the kids some of the time to help raise their own money. Should have been a priority to give them some of the time right up front like we have done in the past??

[Skip Johnson]

Dan you make it sound as if the Youth TBF is different than TBF of Mi ?
I totaly disagree with what you are making it sound like the TBF is when you say "their own money".

This great opportunity @ BPS was brought up discussed and moved on from at the last meeting, I think its a great opportunity for the TBF of Michigan and the TBF of Michigan has 3 goals, YOUTH, CONSERVATION, TOURNAMENT EVENTS...am I missing something  about what the TBF stands for or do we need to make 3 different organizations and bank accounts ?

is it not a general non profit fund that gets disbursed/earmarked between youth, conservation and tournament events ?

why cant Brian and any of the kids donate their time to the general fund during a TBF fundraiser ?

[Jighead]

I think having the kids there would make it more attractive to the shoppers, rather than a bunch of grumpy old fishermen 

[Mark117]

 >:(GRUMPY OLD FISHERMEN.....count me in and I'm bringing my two yr old daughter?

[mikesmiph]

Does anyone know how late we will be wrapping till? I have to work till 6, and it takes me just less than an hour to get there. If I can help, I will.

[motocross269]

With the excessvive amount of tournaments we have in Michigan allready Im pretty happy my "paper" club does not add to my allready busy work, life and tournament schedule, the 6 to 12 mandatory meetings a year that tournament based clubs have is very hard to make and stay in the club, employed, raise my kids, keep my wife happy, etc, etc.

The paper club schedule is great, we meet a couple times a year, we stay in touch by phone, email, chat, web sites, IM's, forums and tournament events, we meet new peaple through each other, fish the same trails and partner up in team tournaments, theres alot of comraderie, sharing of knowledge etc between us so to say or imply that a non tournament /reguler mandatory meeting club is not at "Club Level" may not be exactley true and may be just sounding like your saying "My club is better than your club" in addition if I wasnt part of the club that I am the TBF would be of no use or interest to me and I likeley wouldnt know the TBF existed.

The modern technology and instant communication age is here, the majority of club requirements, bylaws, needs, meetings, functions, etc were created long before the personel computer and times have changed dramatically...I think my clubs better than yours      

Skip, I wasn't saying "My club is better than yours"...I was trying to make the point that something attracts over 50 percent of our members to a BASS club other than the state fish off....That is 14 (approximately) members that are there to just fish our events and be involved in what we do other than the State fish off....You tell me why those members are there and continue to be a part of what we do every year??

If you are getting together a few times a year and fishing I wouldn't call your club a true paper club...

What you have going on may work great for you...A semi serious tournament angler.. but is it the ticket to growing the TBF numbers???  To a point maybe...The TBF will never grow above 250-300 anglers as long as the focus is on paper clubs and the state fish off...You can write that in Stone...

I am not saying eliminate "Paper Clubs" heck I am starting one myself but is that the best path for growing the Federation with involved, active members???.......Probably not...

History proves me right..Just look at the struggles the Federation has on manning events like the outdoors shows, Jr State fish off, etc etc.....If every member would do one event a year how much better off would we be???....A lack of active, involved members slows growth...A majority of members want to fish the state fish off and nothing more...Some here have said that themselves....

Heck IMHO Brian should have to turn boats away from the JR fish off because we are chomping at the bit to help his Jrs out.....

Jighead in order to grow TBF to a number rivaling some of the states with a large membership you are going to have to consider the recreational angler...The guy with a 17 foot Bass tracker that takes his kids out on the weekends and wants to learn a little more about bass fishing..The college kid that doesn't have cash for a new boat but would like to get out on the weekends...The ex hard core angler that wants to take a step back and just fish for fun and a few opens........Those types of guys are the ones that will bring the numbers up and the only way to give them what they are looking for is through viable clubs....One tournament a year isn't going to do it....No matter what the opportunity...

As a side note I do believe the board's plan to have a state fish off on both the west side and east side this year will increase the membership..The plan's for the MI living the dream package are awesome...I wouldn't be surprised to see it grow to over 200 members this year, but how do we grow above the number of serious tourney anglers available is the key to having "THE" State of Michigan Federation..

[Skip Johnson]

I know you werent saying your club was any better I was just saying it might be seen as saying that and I was saying that things have improved ALOT in the last 20 years and that the 20 to 30 year old club standards could handle a little tweeking like adding paper clubs, either way its all good Brian.

The only way were going to get real growth is through public awareness and to stop sounding like we are an organization that is divided, theres a couple things in the works that will be discussed at the next meeting that may help the TBF be more in the public eye.

Theres just been too much negativity posted by some members lateley and that certailey cant help growth, I know theres been some problems in the past and those issues are being addressed and Im sure the TBF will have some more issues in the future as well.

have a great weekend bud, Im out the door to fish Erie  

[Jighead]

Jighead in order to grow TBF to a number rivaling some of the states with a large membership you are going to have to consider the recreational angler...The guy with a 17 foot Bass tracker that takes his kids out on the weekends and wants to learn a little more about bass fishing..The college kid that doesn't have cash for a new boat but would like to get out on the weekends...The ex hard core angler that wants to take a step back and just fish for fun and a few opens........Those types of guys are the ones that will bring the numbers up and the only way to give them what they are looking for is through viable clubs....One tournament a year isn't going to do it....No matter what the opportunity...

I agree Brian.

Giving that kind of fisherman the experience he/she is looking for won't be acheived via paper clubs alone.  Someone that wants to get more involved in the sport by joining a club, learning and fishing with others, and maybe start fishing some tournaments is instantly going to shy away from his/her one opportunity being the State-Fish Off.  Even as a co-angler.

Good point.

[WayneC]

c n b: I hope your trip to Erie was a good one...

The only way were going to get real growth is through public awareness and to stop sounding like we are an organization that is divided, theres a couple things in the works that will be discussed at the next meeting that may help the TBF be more in the public eye.

We have had an organization that was functioning cohesively albeit with all the normal, and I do mean normal, dysfunctions that come with an all volunteer effort.  At that point, if the folks who lay claim to a desire to promote and strengthen parts of what we do together contributed their time and resources first, embraced and respected the value of experienced and active high profile members, made the traditions and bylaws of an established and successful formula for a healthy amateur angling organization a priority and created an atmosphere of trust and confidence that they have the best interests of all the members at the forefront, the public image would be strong and the draw for anglers to become members would be an irresistible force.  Instead, an aggressive move was made "to divide" the organization into a disorganization of special interests.  What we do about it now will determine what our public image will be in the coming months.  Do we have the strength of character to run over a bump in the road and come out on the other side stronger than before?  There are solid indications that we can.  This thread alone has the potential to educate folks who are looking for somewhere to become engaged in a group which is capable of looking out for them and the best interests of bass fishing in Michigan.

Moto...I'm all for seeing the SC grow too.  Keeping the new people engaged over the long haul can only be helped if they see us lead by example and I look forward to sharing in the effort.

[motocross269]

Good post Wayne.....

[WayneC]

It really is a privilege work with a great group of leaders like we have in the TBF.  It's all good as long as we get there together.

[djkimmel]

Dan you make it sound as if the Youth TBF is different than TBF of Mi ?
I totaly disagree with what you are making it sound like the TBF is when you say "their own money".

This great opportunity @ BPS was brought up discussed and moved on from at the last meeting, I think its a great opportunity for the TBF of Michigan and the TBF of Michigan has 3 goals, YOUTH, CONSERVATION, TOURNAMENT EVENTS...am I missing something  about what the TBF stands for or do we need to make 3 different organizations and bank accounts ?

is it not a general non profit fund that gets disbursed/earmarked between youth, conservation and tournament events ?

why cant Brian and any of the kids donate their time to the general fund during a TBF fundraiser ?

You read way too much into what I typed. Kids like and need to learn and do things. That's a big part of what a youth program is about. You can get them started on a bike by holding the handle bar and running alongside, but at some point you have to let go and let them peddle along on their own. Give them some independence.

I completely disagree with your statement about the kids donating their time to us (the adults) if that is what you mean. We are there for them. Not the other way around.

It has always been customary in the past to track the youth money separate anyway. Especially money we received because of the youth program which I feel is the best way to do it. We used some of that money to pay TBF national youth memberships the past couple of years. Great idea. I was disappointed to see it kicked off the budget. It should be a priority as far as this member is concerned.

[Skip Johnson]

Not trying to get into it with you at all Dan but Im quite sure about how I read your post and you making it sound like the youth wont be benifitting from the fund raiser, the TBF stands for youth conservation and yes tournament fishing, Im quite certain the donations from the BPS gift wrapping would be going to the youth in part or full so to make my post say I was asking them to donate their time to "US" is totaly untrue, maybe you should re read my post or here, let me just copy and paste exactley what I said.

"why cant Brian and any of the kids donate their time to the general fund during a TBF fundraiser ?"

If Brian and the kids dont care about the TBF general fund (which funds youth events) then they obviousley dont care about the effort the TBF and the members are putting forth for the youth and conservation.

ya know Dan...theres ALOT of different ways the youth could hold fund raising projects to earmark 100% of their $ if thats what they want to do, are they allready doing this ?

I get hit up dozens of times a year by kids selling candy bars and asking for donations to fund field trips, girl scout projects, boy scouting projects, etc, etc.
Ive never seen the youth TBF doing this, Im sure Im missing something becouse Im new to the TBF...so enlighten me bud, how are they raising money to help pay for the youth TBF events or is it all or mostley on us (the adults)?

Im pretty sure the majority is done by the adult members not to mention the adults who pull $50k rigs full of expensive fuel to the lake to help the TBF youth hold their events.

Dont get me Wrong, Im fine with us donating our time, boats, fuel, etc to help youth's and conservation but to plant a seed (your post) and make it sound like the TBF youth is getting jipped is TOTALY insulting!

honest question Im asking here Dan becouse Im rather new at knowing about the TBF and I am somewhat un informed but make no mistake that just becouse Im not 100% informed about the TBF it doesnt mean that Im clueless about clubs and how general funds get distrubuted.

Ya know what Dan Im just going to put my honest oppinion out there instead of tap dance around you any further.

After reading several posts including yours, doing a little research and Q&A and seeing your protest at the meeting I see your obviousley un pleased that you and Dennis are no longer on the board and in control of an organization that you helped bring into Michigan.

I feel your actions have become personel and are not 100% pure toward the betterment of the TBF.

I feel 100% certain that your post about Brian and the kids not manning the table at BPS to put 100% of the funds to the youth fund was an attemp to plant a destructive seed on the fundraiser and or a board member or the president.

You own the biggest Bass site in michigan and control the delete button, you have a group of great guys that trust you 100% and blindley follow you becouse they respect you and either dont know the whole story or dont have the time to learn ther whole story and listen to you.
using your site to influince peaple to your beliefs which at times have been TOTALY one sided will only hurt you in the long run IMO.

The ONLY reason I have become involved in the TBF is becouse I found out there was a ton of things that were wrong in the TBF and could be fixed and I would like to help, in addition there has been alot of opportunities that were not capitalized on, certifacates and donated product that was never made available to ALL TBF members until this year when several members became wise to this and stepped in to fix the problem.

I think theres two important things that does need to be kept in mind, WE DO THIS BECOUSE WE FISH AND WE CARE.

This IS The Bass Fedearation of Michigan, the majority of us are Bass tournament anglers, WE DO THIS TO PROTECT OUR RESOURCE FOR OUR CHILDREN AND FUTURE GENERATIONS, if it wasnt about fishing and protecting fishing for future generations we would sell our boats and donate the $ to a childrens hospital or something.

going back to my original question

Why cant Brian or his youth members and family donate their time to the TBF fundraiser ?

Honestley I have to say that if Brian is divided in the TBF just becouse he is the youth director and wont participate towards the general fund...the one and only fund/bank account of the TBF then I think we need a new youth director that cares about the TBF as a whole.
no dis respect intended Brian I just dont like the division of what should be a sole entity standing for youth, conservation and fishing.

My personel oppinion is the TBF hasnt grown like it should have becouse it has been un organized, under exploited and divided.

You all can do this without me Im quite certain but honestley if the TBF stays divided and we keep getting influential members (like yourself Dan) making negative posts I dont want any part of the TBF and I dont see why any one else would want to be a part of it either and the TBF membership will not grow therefore it will crumble....who's gonna lose out then ?

One of the things that realy frustrates me the most is Im sure Tom @ BPS or other managers or employees or other TBF sponsors are reading this and when they see a post thats is in no way accurate about the youth benefitting or not benefitting from this fund raiser or the TBF funds it could jeopardize future TBF fundraising opportunities!

[cameraguy]

This is the FIRST Paragraph in the TBF of MI by-laws:
The TBF of MI, Inc., will be governed by a Board of Directors composed of nine (9) members.
The primary goal of the TBF of MI, Inc., shall be to promote conservation of our natural resources be involved with youth incentives and preserve the sport of bass fishing.

Hmmm, nothing about a State Championship.

Now for a few other things, on October 20, an e-mail was sent out via TBF bulk e-mail and written by TBF of MI President, Jeff Cox, that stated that the dues increase would be necessary in order to fund the "free" State Championship.  Once the cat is out of the bag, it's hard to put back in no matter who says what to the contrary after that.

There can be no disputing that the $5 dues for the youth to National TBF was paid by the Michigan TBF this past year and that practice was voted to be discontinued for next year.

I've also read that Jeff Cox can obtain additional funding for the State Championship should fund-raising efforts fall short.  The question is, fall short of what?  $2,000, $5,000, $8,000?  I've already pointed out (which nobody seems to want to address, by the way) that 50 anglers (which is a very low number) at $100 apiece is $5,000 somebody has to replace with fund-raising.  Does anybody think realistically that fund-raising can reach that much cash? Or what if 200 anglers participate in the State Championship? Does that mean that fund-raising has to provide $20,000?

What that seems to imply is that all or most fund-raising money will go to the State Championship.  Is there a document somewhere that states what percentage of fund-raising dollars goes to what activity?  That might be helpful.

Also, there are some members who are lobbying for greatly increasing the money that goes to the state team.  How are you going to accomplish that considering that you took away the biggest source of revenue, the entry fees?  Nobody has bothered to explain that either.  The numbers just don't work.  Sorry.

Lastly, I guess to some it is wrong to express an opinion that disagrees with certain other members.  Some say that it might harm the Federation to do so.  It seems to me that it's much more harmful when other members say that one shouldn't express an opinion unless it agrees with those in charge.  That kind of attitude is not only wrong, but, dangerous.

PS-As far as following someone blindly...read every word of what has been sent out via e-mail and this thread and THEN tell me who is following who blindly.