So what happened at the meeting?

[cameraguy]

It's ridiculous to think that doing dumb things is going to change the Federation in a positive way.  Im not going to re-state all of the previous discussion here as I'm tired of it.  The State Championship is a worthwhile endeavour, and a really fun tournament, but I it should fund itself (with sponsors assistance, as well, but not public fund-raisers). I think you can afford it.

Mark, you are right about one thing though, getting kids involved now will lead to boats sold in the future. The TBF needs to think about how to get more kids involved.  One way might be to expose an entire school to the positive aspects of fishing and tournament fishing.  Many kids do not ever get the chance to go fishing.  That's a shame.  Simply getting a chance to experience fishing should boost the number of anglers in the future. 

[djkimmel]

Mark, I don't recall you ever asking me why I resigned so it seems imprudent for you to assume you know why I resigned. I don't recall you even being there when all these things occurred so you must be getting your one-sided information from Jeff or one of his guys. I would like to share one thing with you now since you weren't there. The people who voted for Dennis for one more year so Jeff could get some experience first (since he has never done this before) were myself, Dennis Beltz, Dave Reault and Brian Belevender. That is the part of the board that did 95% of the work that actually got done and includes 3 times the experience in years compared the other board members. I'm very confident in their judgment since they had a lot to do with TBF of Michigan even existing.

Since you have felt the need to poke at me in public, allow me to retort. Since you were not involved and have not asked any questions of me, it is apparent you are making up your mind from less than half the story.

I happen to know all sides and everything that is going on since I have been involved on the inside and have had a number of discussions with Jeff. I always hope someone in your position who could actually be a leader will think things through and maybe find out all parts of a situation before making decisions based on incomplete information. That is how bad decisions are made at times. I thought you had more respect for me than that. I appear to have been wrong. It is a free country and you can do and think as you wish.

That goes both ways though. I don't recall it ever being an issue with people asking questions or even disagreeing in the past. Anytime I see someone making pronouncements without involving others first, and then trying to make it appear that anyone who asks questions or disagrees has problems, I tend to be twice as alert considering outside of a totalitarian government, that is not how things work in the democratic process. It is convenient for anyone who just wants free reign with no oversight or accountability however.

As you admit, it sounds like some of the changes appeal to you personally. Good for you. That doesn't mean everyone else will feel the same appeal. If you did not like the decisions that were made, I imagine you would be talking to other people and letting them know it also. As we both know you do at times. I don't recall ever calling you and telling you that you could not state your opinions. Why would that be okay for you, but not okay for me? Please explain the difference. I definitely have not made public claims about you like you have about me. If I want to know why you did something, I would call you and ask you rather than make something up someone else told me.

I'm hearing from more and more members who are concerned about the way things have been done, unilaterally by an inexperienced person, and concerned that some of the decisions do not appear to be thought through as they expect.

Questions, debate and even disagreement are fine in a democratic process. Everyone knows that who lives in this country. Considering that I have more experiences that the 5 board members who are presently in the majority put together, and that I have met and spoke before and with persons all the way up to US Congressman, why would Jeff, or you, or anyone else think you can pressure me into silence? Maybe I actually know what I'm talking about? That would be interesting. What is truly interesting is that others have stated similar and additional comments and concerns on their own. Do they need to be quiet too and not have an opinion or say in their organization? Are you saying that only people who agree with everything Jeff does should be a member?

That would be bad because many of the members who do the good things would be gone. Yikes. Then it would just be another tournament circuit. Which is not what a federation is about.

Luckily, I choose to not tell the entire story publicly because the milk has been already spilt. I leave out many details that I would not leave out if I was the petty person I'm accused of. What is important now, even for someone who just wants to fish, is that myself and others are vigilant and selfless enough to be wary of contradictory decisionmaking and to know that saying TBF is also about youth and conservation doesn't mean anything unless it is backed up with real action. Plenty of discussion here has clarified the questions and issues already for anyone willing to read who hasn't already made up their mind or only wants to fish. It is clear only some members are being considered and listened to at the present by the majority in power but many others are not. Anyone who pays attention can recognize that it isn't me making these questions come about. It is the actions and communications of Jeff and the board doing that. You guys are missing the mark completely because this isn't about me and Jeff. It is about what a lot of members think and will decide who have not been considered or listened to.

You're shooting in the wrong direction.

BTW, TBF of Michigan started out with less than 50 members before going up to over 230. Then membership went back down last year again, so your claim about membership is not accurate. Dennis and I went to club meeting to try to get them to join. None of the board members who are in the majority right now ever did that. Maybe that is one reason membership went down? Also, some anglers, even anglers who benefited greatly from our activities, were going around complaining about stuff rather than offering to help out. Maybe that is another reason membership went down? If influential anglers go around complaining, some people won't join... isn't that what you are trying to tell me right now? Do you know anyone else guilty of that?

[motocross269]

I just read through this whole post again....I didn't really see alot of bickering or fingerpointing from members...I see some people that have legitimate questions and concerns about how decisions were made and the direction TBF may be headed....Some of those questions were answered some not so much...If there is something wrong with a paying involved member trying to get answers to legitimate questions then there is a problem...

[djkimmel]

I agree. This is an example of the democratic process in action. Funny how sometimes I'm told I should 'have to leave stuff up' and sometimes I'm told I should have to delete stuff. I have always preferred not to add to the negativity and bad things in the world, but in general, if debate is done in an adult manner without getting personal, I'll leave it up.

I only take it personal when someone deigns to assume they know my mind without having ever actually asked me, or even having been involved directly with everything that has occurred this year. Other than that, this is all about what is best for TBF of Michigan. The first thing that would convince me everyone is truly what they claim to be would be to add back the cost of paying the youth membership of $5 per child. It's a small thing that sends the right message.

Of course, once you put yourself in an $8,000 to $10,000 hole - the amount wiped out by taking away the entry fee, it is kind of hard to do much else. We were told the difference would be covered, but I didn't see it reflected in the budget or the checking account statements. You're talking about the entire members dues of over 320 new members or an awful lot of fundraising just for the state team.

[Skip Johnson]

Heres where I wish Jeff was still a member of GLBass.com so he could explain becouse he does have a plan and it is a plan that should work.
As Jeff stated at the meeting some of that $8k deficit will be and allready has been partialy replaced by selling donated products like solar bat sun glasses, a Hummingbird 997, a ton of yama lube and evinrude oil and a few other items to TBF members, that money goes 100% to the general fund.
in the past not all the sponsor freebies were sold to TBF members so thats where a portion will come from.

some of the money will need to come from fund raisers just like other successfull TBF states are currentley doing and doing quite well at compared to the original TBF of Mi ways.

I personely dont understand why the youth's shouldnt have to pay a VERY small membership fee.
To be a member of boy scouts for example theres much larger expenses including uniforms, field trips, etc. the $5 that paid for the youth membership was from Cody's winnings that were decided to be used towards youth membership but that money has now been used up.

I could go on but Id rather not since this is not the official web site of TBF of Michigan and this site is being used to defame the new president.
If any of you have any questions or doubt please call President of TBF of Mi Jeff Cox @ 734-429-2580 and he will be happy to answer all of your questions including where the $ is expected to come from.

Now enough about this Im headed out the door to fish Erie 

[MadWags]

There have been some truly unfortunate statements made in this thread recently. I can tell you that it has affected my decision process. I was on the fence anyway. Not anymore.

[Waterfoul]

Well, I'm in.  And so it my 18 year old partner.  Who buy the way can't WAIT to own his own boat and sit in the front seat a little more often.

And correct me if I'm wrong... isn't the TBF a group of people who just want to fish and possibly make a bit of money?    The "bickering" I'm reading really should be handled behind the scenes, not on a public forum.  This will only lead to some anglers deciding they don't want to belong.

Can't wait to see who I draw at Muskegon.

[TCook]

I will be fishing TBF next year for one reason it's a great opportunity. I could care less about all the politics and bickering that seems to always be going on in this group. I just don't understand how you guys get so worked up and let these issues cause bad blood between each other.

[djkimmel]

And correct me if I'm wrong... isn't the TBF a group of people who just want to fish and possibly make a bit of money?    The "bickering" I'm reading really should be handled behind the scenes, not on a public forum.  This will only lead to some anglers deciding they don't want to belong.

As has been mentioned by a number of members, TBF of Michigan is not supposed to just be a tournament circuit. It is not just a group of people who want to fish and make a bit of money. That is a tournament circuit. There are plenty of those. What anglers need, whether they know it or not, is an organization that can make all the other things happen like organized efforts to get youth involved and keep them involved; to watch over the environment and to work for change in an organized fashion. If everyone just fished (sounds great to me too), how would any of those other things get done? Who would do them? Someone else?

Any organization that can't handle some questions and disagreement needs to take a hard look at itself and ask why? One of the purposes of this forum is to let EVERYONE state their opinion. Not just the people who say what you (the rhetorical you here) like to hear or agree with. If ANY idea gets through to people it is that one.

Adult and mature debate can be productive and even lead to improvement. I see a pretty good amount of that going on in this thread. I'm not going to shut it down just because some people don't like it. I'd have to shut down a lot of threads if I did that every time someone doesn't like it.

I prefer positive and fun, but my actions did not start this particular thread and I'm not the only one keeping it going, and other than a little personal stuff coming from some people wanting to stifle opposing views (as someone pointed out - who is following who blindly - good point) it has been pretty mature and many people have had the opportunity to state their opinions and show who they are to everyone else by choice. Usually, when I do stop something like this, I get complaints from some of the same persons. Funny, when they agree with a topic, I can't stop a thread. When they don't agree with a thread I have to stop it. I was taught at a very early age that you can't have things both ways.

As long as people follow the rules, avoid personal attacks and I don't think they are harming my business too much, I try to let it continue. Just by giving TBF their own large section, I have to listen to a number of complaints that I'm am pro TBF and anti BASS. If I make any changes, it will be for business reasons because if I don't keep things going in that area, the site won't be here for anyone to state their opinions on.

[djkimmel]

Some people can debate and still be friends.

[Skip Johnson]

well....one thing is very obvious....we care!
thats a whole lot more than I can say about the average fisherman....hey that makes us above average   .

this is a good post helping us move forward to help preserve our sport and environment in Michigan and we have national backing plus sponsors so the TBF is a win win organization that we ALL need to support.

we are the only ones that will take the time to do it right, sorry Jenny and Obama but I just dont trust you enough to sit back and "just fish".

I know some peaple disagree with the changes, some peaple disagree with them disagreeing, some peaples feelings got hurt by the changes and/or the posts but Im sure we will all come together with the TBF and our friendships.

I think getting a few things out in the open is good, it helps us decide what needs to be done or voted on at the meetings, the meetings go by fast with so many things to discuss so I think posts like this could help us be more organized, positive and progressive at the meetings plus help point out any motions or member requests and Q&A that might need to be observed.

P.S. Im not following blindley, Im just following and hoping everything works out, I had no vote on anything that is happening.
I follow and try to help it grow becouse I think the TBF stands for something that is extrememley important to our future and our childrens future.

p.s.s. I think it would be a good idea for the general members that want to be involved and in the know to attend the meetings.

by the way Erie was on fire today 

[djkimmel]

Well, if no one is following anyone blindly, we're ahead already. Helping out is good too. Pictures of late November bass are also good...

[WayneC]

Ouch!  Just saw your post Mark and gotta say that some things are handled better mano-e-mano.  

One thing that has held this thread together is the way so many GLB members have been able to work through issues with respect.  It seems fairly obvious to me that everyone, and I do mean everyone wants to see growth in the Federation in all aspects: Kids, Conservation and the State Championship.  It follows that the board deserves all the support it can get to achieve those ends and there is no way, no how that anybody in our membership at large won't at the very least agree in principal, or perhaps support them to get the job done.  The key issues revolve more around the manner in which we get there.  

Can a small group force their agenda on the whole and we all win?  Perhaps...  A different approach could be: A member with experience in the federation culture (if you will) might work hard with the presidents and the individual clubs, work within the bylaws and past practices, listen to the people who have worked through these issues before and build a solid consensus.  Then move forward and build on what has made the federation system work for so long while introducing "out of the box" measures that build a bigger box.

I've been fortunate to be close enough to the action concerning federation affairs over the years to know that the 900+ membership wasn't built, nor was it held together by anything but people who had respect for the organization, its members and its purpose.  Never in that time did I see members leap off a cliff in blind faith chasing a single individual either.  There was an orderly progression of votes, discussions, publishing minutes and keeping presidents up-to-date so they can take that back to their clubs.  Since last spring the level of respect toward these values hasn't been at the level to which I have been accustomed to.  

If you haven't been following closely then perhaps you didn't know:

* The 2009 General Meeting minutes from last March have yet to be published, discussed and approved.
* A clear bylaw violation occurred at the last meeting over the objections of two clubs.
* Myself and at least one other president haven't been receiving emails from the TBF.  In my case, I haven't seen anything at all since at least April and this has been discussed openly in the meeting with nearly all board members present.  At that time I asked to be brought up-to-date.

If this was all there was then it really isn't worth mentioning because this is a volunteer outfit and stuff happens.  If the issues are resolved eventually then that's good enough for me.  What appears to be happening though is a steady repetition of the same kinds of errors.  By the time the State Championship rolls around, these errors look like they will be compounded beyond belief and the good being done to increase the membership could be canceled out and we'll be back where we started.  Right now the only way to avoid this is for the membership to speak up.  It really isn't respectful for anyone to say that participating in the federation in an appropriate way by discussing these important issues is an attack on any one individual or called bickering.

In my case, I sent less people to the State Championship last year from my team because there were some substantive questions about how the board handled certain issues.  This year I will send more because the incentives are there but how to keep the new people will depend a lot less on what I think and a lot more on how much they feel a part of something bigger than themselves, something worthwhile.  The next move is on the board to make this a cohesive federation of clubs working toward all the cool things we can achieve together.  Quote: "None of us is as good as all of us."

[WayneC]

Now that's what I call service...one phone call later and it looks like the email thing will get rolling for me so now maybe I won't be playing catchup here pretty soon.  Also a substantive talk about other key issues has helped.  I look forward to talking about how things are being accomplished, tracking the results and watching some good things come to pass.  That's way more fun than the alternative. 

[Mark117]

This thread has been viewed over 1700x's? And we can only get 12 members of the TBF to help volunteer for a youth and conservation fundraiser at BPS? You should all be ashamed of yourself. Thanks to the guys and gal that helped out!

It sounds like the bottom line in this whole thread is all about the mighty DOLLAR! And who should get it and who should spend it?
Right?  SAD! I HATE MONEY! IT DESTROYS FAMILIES, FRIENDS, AND BUSINESSES. PERIOD!

Let me say a few things:

1. If I pay the $5 dues for all the Jr's. would that make Dan & co. happy? NO? Brian call me if you think the Jr's. are underfunded.
(Dan, Do you get paid per view with this website? with this thread maybe GLB would like to sponsor the youth dues?) 50x5=$250?

2. I have been lucky enough to make the stateteam 3x's and I have had little funding to help with expenses. So all the talk about the money(dues) going towards the state championship is a joke, and a free ride with the TBF to the northern divisional is only possible with a rich man feeling sorry for the stateteam? NO MONEY IS BEING TAKEN AWAY FROM THE YOUTH AND CONSERVATION EFFORTS. PERIOD!!!

Q. Dan, how much has the TBF of MI raised in the past 4 yrs for the youth and conservation efforts? Please give me a $ amount per yr. so I can make sure we double that amount and shut up the tournament haters.

3. This federation is one package: youth,conservation,& fishing.
yes we have a state championship! yes we have a JR. state championship! yes we help with conservation efforts!

Q. The stateteam has won $19,000+ over the last two yrs.
Dan, Gomez, & Wayne should all that money go back to the stateteam, the stateteam fund, or the TBF general fund?
Good question?
Dan, Gomez, Wayne, & Co. think all monies should be divide into three funds? Just like the TBF of MI is now divided?? NO!
IT IS CALLED A GENERAL FUND!!! Make a budget, raise the $, fund the projects! Its simply if you understand business.

Just getting a few things off my chest. Please respond.

PS I fish because I love the challenge, I volunteer because I want to see this sport grow!

I will always support the TBF, the stateteam, and I will forever fish the state championship because I understand the benefits with a chance to someday "LIVE THE DREAM"....

                        Thanks,

              Jon "don't hate the player, hate the game" Jezierski

Pss Who wants to put the gloves on in the octagon for a TBF fundraiser to fund the stateteam!?!   oops! the general fund?

[Mark117]

If anyone has any questions about the TBF of MI please call me.
I have helped at the shows, I have volunteered at fundraisers, I have paid my dues for the last 4 yrs, I have made the state team 3x's and the Nationals once.

Please give me a call and I might be able to help with all the confusion?

                             Thanks,
                                        Jon Jezierski
                                                         248 835 8730

[Mark117]

Mark Modrak,
Please do not post on this site. Its not worth it! It will only lower yourself to my level. Greatness?? Leave all the ?!?!?!?!?!? to us little guys. Save yourself from the negative views? You're a great role model for this sport and we need you at the top! A lot of people look up to you.

                     just my thought,
                                            Jon

Mama always said....if you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all?

[cameraguy]

I don't have time to reply to most of this but...yes I think the State Championship should have a separate budget.

[Mark117]

Cameraguy,
The question was should all the $19,000+ won at the Northern Divisional go to the stateteam, the stateteam fund, or the general fund??? 
According to your plan the stateteam can keep all there monies($19,000), the youth can keep there $1000?, and the conservation can keep there $1000 grant?  "I will wait for Dan to give me some numbers of the last 4 yrs. on the youth and conservation budgets?"

No joke we need a BUDGET for all three? youth, conservation, and fishing! Which I have not seen for the past 4 yrs?

[djkimmel]

Jon,
Treasury reports were given out and gone over at each members' meeting and board meeting I was at (all of them pretty much) broken down by a number of categories including general fund, youth and sometimes conservation. Budgets were done once per year also.

I think what has been discussed on this thread has been thorough and clear enough for most people so I don't see anything to add at this time considering the above.

Thanks for your input to the discussion. Very helpful.