Crankbait Action Vs. Rod Action...Opinions Anyone?

[Hooksetter]

 I was out yesterday fishing on the Half Moon chain and could not get bit. Because of an equipment malfunction, [severe backlash], I ended up with the same crank tied on two different rods, same reels, same line. I could not get bit when using the medium action crankbait rod. As soon as I started using the medium heavy action casting rod I started catching them.

So, does a medium heavy action casting rod impart different action than a medium action cranking rod? It felt like the casting rod gave the crank a tighter wobble.

Also, would the action of the rod affect the depth the crank would run?

Willie

[djkimmel]

Hmmm? Lots of possible factors involved.

Were the bites obvious? Or real light?

Were fishing slow? Or maybe fast and aggressive?

[TCook]

I think its more likley the two crankbaits ran different and the lure on the medium heavy rod was more erratic and triggered the strikes and not due to the rod you were using.  Its well known that you can find those special crankbaits that for some reason just flat out catch fish more than an identical bait. Maybe you stumbled upon one of those crankbaits. What crank were you using?

[bob o]

was the line the same lb rating? a heavier line will slow down the wobble of a crankbait also the bait will not run as deep with heavier line. and the retrieve speed of the reel is also a big factor 6:1 vs 5:1 makes a big difference.

i love spell check

[Hooksetter]

Here's the rest of the story... I was out on the 23rd of September and caught em pretty good. This was the gear:

Lucky Craft RC 1.5, bull bream color.
GLoomis 7' medium action, moderately fast tip crankbait rod.
Shimano Chronarch SF100 reel.
P-Line 12# Evolution.
I was fishing drops tight to the bank that dropped fast into 7-10 fow. Mostly sand bottom with scattered weeds. Air temps were about 67 degrees. Water temps were about 56 degrees, mid afternoon, sunny and breezy. I was casting into 1-2 fow and dredging the bottom until the drop and ticking the weeds. When it would pop out of the weeds the bass would hammer it. My 5 best went about 13.5 lbs. 3 smallies and 2 largemouths.

Yesterday I went to the same stretch of bank with the same set-up. Air temps were about 65 degrees and water temps were about 51 degrees. Everything else was the same. Couldn't buy a bite.

After about an hour I got a bad backlash. Instead of re-tying I put that crank on a GLoomis 7' medium heavy action fast tip IMX casting rod. Same reel. Same line. I caught 2 in 7 casts, but they were barely hooked. I cleaned up the backlash and re-tied that same crank back on the cranking rod thinking the softer action would allow a more solid hook up. Couldn't buy a bite. I tied on a second crank identical to that one back on the casting rod and started catching them again. My 5 best went 14.2 lbs. 3 largemouths and 2 smallies. I did not catch a fish on the cranking rod all day.

So, considering everything was the same except the rods, and I used two different but identical cranks and caught em on both, wouldn't it be a safe assumption that the difference maker was the action of the rods? I know the old cliche about assuming but given the facts isn't that the only logical answer?

I'm thinking maybe the crank was snapping out of the weeds a little crisper with the casting rod and that was the trigger?

Willie

[TCook]

Well with that information you might be right if the bass were hitting it after it was ripped out of the weeds. I don't think lucky craft crankbaits very much in action so that and the fact you got bit on two identical baits on the same setup tells me your probably right. Only other possibility I see is if it was just a coincidence that you were in the right spots when you were using the MH setup. That MH IMX rod would rip it faster and cleaner than that medium loomis crankbait rod. I actually use the same loomis crankbait rod as you but not when I'm trying to rip cranks or traps out of the weeds. I switch to my MH glx and use braid for that application. I trigger alot more strikes with that setup but can lose more fish by pulling the hooks on short strikes. It helps to loosen the drag and really play out each fish.

[Jighead]

Yeah, I would agree that it was the action that the rod gave when ripping it out of the weeds that made the difference in that situation.

But even in open water (minus the weeds) I think it would impart a different action to the bait as it bumped along the bottom, with the stiffer rod being more forceful and tumbling the bait forward much more erratically.

[FishermanJohn]

TCook and Jighead pretty much summed it up.  The MH rod has less flex, so the bait gets more deflection and erratic behavior rather than being absorbed by the rod tip of the cranking rod.   The crank rod has a softer tip, (supposedly to keep from ripping the hooks out on the hook set), but I get around this by loosening my drag when using braids.

[djkimmel]

That is what I was wondering. The ripping out of weeds probably is the key. I use the same rods, but different line to accomplish the same thing when I fish crankbaits. P-Line HALO or Spectrex to get a better rip out of the weeds. It's those little things that really make a big difference on so many days.

Now, if we could all just figure the right little things out quickly each day... we'd all be famous

Good job Hooksetter

[Jighead]

Now, if we could all just figure the right little things out quickly each day... we'd all be famous

No doubt.  It usually takes me the 10 hour ride home from a whooping at the regionals to figure out what I did wrong 

[Skulley]

I fish crankbaits a lot.  I believe that you have to have the right rod.  I think the rod has everything to do with catching fish on a crankbait.  I have come to the conclusion that as long as the rod is a fiberglas rod, you will get better action out of your crankbait.  Plus I also believe that you can feel the bites better.  I have outfished others from the backs of their boats with crankbaits using a fiberglas rod and mono while the other angler was using graphite and mono... ...fishing the exact same crankbait.  You have to ask yourself..... .....Is it the rod??.... ....or is there something in the retrieve..... ........or maybe the rod action gave the crankbait a more natural action where the fish actually believed that was a tender morsel of food.  Maybe the rod triggered more of a reaction bite which also peaked the fishes hunger....... .....for food..... ......or it got mad and decided to strike..........   All good questions.........so which is it.......... ........perhaps we will really never know.  Oh yeah, were they chasing shad or crawfish or what......because there are so many patterns of crankbaits.      I still say that 80% of catching fish on cranks is the rod.......and the other 20% is the bait itself.  Just my 3 cents worth of opinion and knowledge.                  What about the reel??             That is another factor.  I like lower speed reels like 4.4 to 1.  I use them most for cranking.  The fastest I use for cranking is 5.2 to 1.  I have used 6.3 to 1 in some instances but did not get bit like I did with lower speed reels.  Yeah what about the reel..........       I have done a lot of experimenting in the hot pond with this crankbait stuff because that is a great place to crank.  That is about all I use in the hot pond although the spinnerbait was kind of doing the trick this past Sunday when I was out there.  A lot of other guys were using plastics.  I rarely use plastics in there.  Boy I could go on about this subject. Every time I get ready to click on post another thought about this pops into my brain.  What about the tightest wobbling bait....the rattle trap was hot Sunday too.      ..........but the wider wobbling wiggle wart caught a few too.  So Sunday was it the vibration or the action or the profile or the whatever..........              


BD         

[motocross269]

I have cut tubes off from my rods and handed them to guys in the back of the boat after I had a heavy limit in the livewell and the guys in the back still haven't gotten bit...I have even handed my whole setup to guys..I am talking about good tournament fisherman....

That could be a million dollar question on why one day or one angler is hot over another...

[Skulley]

I have cut tubes off from my rods and handed them to guys in the back of the boat after I had a heavy limit in the livewell and the guys in the back still haven't gotten bit...I have even handed my whole setup to guys..I am talking about good tournament fisherman....

That could be a million dollar question on why one day or one angler is hot over another...

Great point moto!!!  I have done the same where the guy in the back didn't get bit.  I think that is one of the many million dollar questions in bassfishing.   

BD               

[zooker]

i live in the home of cranking..
the only differance in rod action is the ability to toss and retrieve heavier baits.. a medium action lets you get good casting distance with lighter baits. while giving you enough give not to tear lose the trebles..

on heavier deeper divers 5/8 oz or bigger you will over weigh a medium action rod using a medium heavy is a better choice..

shallow divers like the rc 1.5 don't require light line. i run 12-17 pound mono on most all my shallow divers or lipless baits..

feel don't mean spit with cranks. either you work the struture or you don't.you should be able to tell when bass hits the bait -feels like ya wacked a stump most times-


zooker

[Cheetam]

feel don't mean spit with cranks. either you work the struture or you don't.you should be able to tell when bass hits the bait -feels like ya wacked a stump most times-


zooker

I kinda agree and then again, I kinda don't.  For shallow cranks, I agree with you.  Feel doesn't mean spit most of the time.  For deep cranks, when you're dredging bottom and trying to hit a 3 foot wide patch of gravel, I think you have to have some "feel".  If you need to, and can tell the difference between muck, sand, and rock, then yeah "feel" is important.  Also, up here, when fishing smallies, they don't commit to a bait sometimes.  They just follow it and will "slap" at the bait.  I can "feel" that...I don't know if others can.  When I "feel" that, a lot of times I just stop reeling and let the bait float up like a stunned minnow would and that's when they usually take the bait.  The 6.2 I got on Clair a couple weekends ago did this.  So, feel is important to some degree...but then again it's not.

[djkimmel]

Someone who crankbaits a lot can make more things happen than often than someone who doesn't. I've always felt it is a combination of feel, concentration, confidence, the right tools, innovation and maybe the 6th sense...? I've seen it too many times to not believe it can't be clearly described completely or easily transferred to someone else.

I hear from many anglers who say some variation of 'I don't have much confidence in crankbaits so I don't use them much...' They're a tool like anything else. I think they are one of the best tools too as a group or family of lures.

I switched to mostly graphite crankbait rods a few years ago because I wanted more feel for bottom changes, slight changes in lure vibration (clues ) and easier to rip through cover. I use more P-Line HALO too (fluorocarbon mix) for better feel and more depth on the same strength line compared to mono. I figure if it's good enough for that KVD guy...

Watching someone who is really in tune with crankbaits do his or her thing is always something to behold. You can often tell they are going to get a bite BEFORE they get it!! I wish I got in that zone myself a lot more.

I've watched Steve Clapper and Mike Trombly do the same thing with soft baits a few times and it is pretty cool. Almost a form of ESP... prescience... (for any Dune fans out there)

[thedude]

i like to fish my cranks on 20lb braid and with an s-glass rod. i don't fish them unless i'm hitting cover and "feel" is incredibly important to me. If i can't feel the bait wobbling, i don't like it.  i can tell when i'm hitting weeds, rock, mud, sand you name it. More importantly i can tell the instant when a fish just nips a hook or hits the side of the bait - when i do get a taker, it feels like i have an eternity to load up the hooks too. i have a very good hookup to the boat ratio with it.

if i'm not fishing in cover (which is rare) i use 10lb floro on the same setup, not as much feel to it, but less chance of line-spooking fish.

[TCook]

Some of you guys have been saying that a different action rod will alter the way a crankbait runs and it made me think. I just don't comprehend how a heavier rod will change the way a crankbait runs with 40 yards of fishing line between the crank and the rod. It makes sense that a heavier rod will rip a bait through weeds or cover and give you more feel but changing the action of the bait...I just don't know about that. I have to agree with Zookers explanation that the rod action is most important with casting distance and not pulling the hooks out. When watching KVD fish a crankbait he is using a 7-6 soft rod most of the time and casting a mile. He always says distance is key to keep the crankbait in the strike zone for as long as possible. I doubt he is using this setup when he is ripping cranks or traps outta weeds though.

[zooker]

it was not my intention to mean feel means nothing. yep i feel the bait digging bottom like every one else. it to me it means i am in the struture. i fish lakes void of grass,weeds, or growing vegtable matter. pretty much brushpiles, docks, and rockpiles are the pattern..

i only took 4 fish off this rock pile since i found it but this was the SMALLEST...

 

any questions??



kvd might be your guiding light.. he aint mine fer dam sure..


zooker

[TCook]

Nah no "guiding light" here, KVD is probably the best crankbait fisherman on the planet so I try to pick up on any advice he gives.