The increasing costs of Tournament fishing

[motocross269]

This is a great comment posting from the owner of Bass Cat boats reflecting on consumer demand and business decisions as seen from his eyes as a Family boat company owner..How much boat and tackle do we really need???

BCB

From: Rick Pierce, Bass Cat Boats

Last week jyarb put up a very nice question as to our sport becoming too "elitist"? He then answered it in short order. http://www.wmi.org/multi_board...00979

This one is not short, though it is a position. No one is wrong on this and jyarb's post gave us a window to put this through. Sorry to be long, though these are our thoughts

In the early 1990's I personally competed in the BASS Top 100 (original Elites) with a 17' Caracal and a 150 XR series. Of course BASS had the 150 HP limitation and most were running 19' models with a few 20' and 18' models thrown in. Sure it was fast and I totally enjoyed it, though would a Pro angler even think about using a 17' boat in the Elites today? No and there are many reasons.

BASS changed the game with the move from a 150 rating to a 250 rating. Which we still feel is faster than some individuals are capable of handling is certain situations. Though we were selling over 70% 200 and larger engines at that time. BASS was following a trend, and we all wanted bigger rigs. Plus a 150 could be a potential problem on a loaded 20' model at Erie, Ontario or Saint Clair with the wind blowing.

Tackle storage and needs for gear are a premium, and these larger boats have more gear storage. The argument could be made that they need to restrict the gear they carry and that would be a part of the sport. Golf restricts the clubs you can carry in the bag.

This topic came up with an aspiring FLW angler last week in Virginia. The young man (name withheld) is watching the Bass Fan comments and feels he drank the Kool-Ade too soon, openly and willingly, of course he is young. Though now he is reassessing his present direction and can't just scale back.

When we were all young we showed up with whatever we had. My first fishing rig was a Johnson 70 and a 16' Deluxe Tournament model many men would give their ___ for then. The next tournament rig was an 85 hp Merc. on that 16' 64" beam Deluxe Tournament model, in my first BCA event in mid 1970's. And yes most were moving on to the 115, 135, 140 and even 150 engines then. From there I graduated to a 1600 Vee with a 115 Mercury and moved on to those 150 engines.

In the mid 1980's I moved back to a 16' 9" Margay and a 115 Mariner tower of power in line 6 for a spring season. Even then I got lots of eyes and comments at Redman and other events with a "baby boat" as they called it. SO, even then we expected more and the comments were unwarranted, as well as unsolicited. It though did a fine job and I managed to cash a few checks in that rig. I took the rashing well as I could have chosen a Pantera and a 200, though I would have had a Caracal by choice.

Still comments on opinions were made and they would have set less positively on an outside industry or younger angler pinching his pennies to get what he could afford. That same setup of a Margay and 115 Mariner was also Greg Hackney's first fiberglass ride.

In my conversation last weekend with the young angler, he started with a 19' and 200 rigged Pantera II model that most any 40 year old working angler would love to have. His father had a 225 BCB Jaguar we believe, though he began his move to pro angling from the top so to speak.

Even today we see the college youth wanting to start with what Dad has and Dad earned it over the years. So the process is upside down.

In those 70's, 80's and even early 90's years, showing up with a 1/2 ton single cab truck and 2x WD was fine, and many with a V6 engine no less. Though today we all think we have to have the, suburban, the extended cab 4x4 or even a diesel monster with tons of power. Take your pick and put your name here ________. When is the last time you saw a Dodge, Ford or Chevrolet family car pull a boat to the ramp? Though it was common till the late 80's.

If Mike Iaconelli showed up with a 115 Opti on a Sabre, it might change the tone some? Though if Butch Tucker shows up with a 115 Opti on a 188 Ranger, he would throw a penalty flag in the air and everyone wonder about his financial position. Of course when Rick Clunn showed up with an aluminum rig, it did not really change the world we live in, and Jeff McG. and David Ashcraft did not really set the tone fishing from their aluminum boats. Though probably the right campaign has not been run yet. Though would Mike Iaconelli risk some success in doing that? Possibly so! Just as we all did when we started. We had to think about our fuel consumption as many only had baby tanks. We had 19.8 gallons going way back,. Though a 12 or 16 gallon load of fuel was not uncommon. One of the major brands only had twin 12 or 18 (24 or 36) gallons tanks for years, when we had twin 27 tanks (54).

Right now we have two rigs built for my father (Ron Pierce), one is a Sabre with a 90 hp carb'd Merc, and the other is a Sabre with a 115 Optimax. We have offered a Sabre Day Tripper package in the last few years that sells bone stock with a 115 in the $20k plus or minus range. Though we have not sold very many, and very, very few to be honest. They just don't seem to want that little package.

Though we must all learn to accept those younger anglers, encourage them to have a used rig, and a used truck. Bite our tongues and teach them to work their way up. A 25 year old just out of college should not place a burden on his family of a new truck, house, and a $40 to 50k boat. Though we see it all too often. Get your youth started with a lesser rig, and let them earn their way up the ladder.

Were you unhappy in going to the lake with a 115 engine on your _____(brand here) 16', 17' or 18' boat? No you were tickled to have it. And so will they be!

Of course from our side we have to compete and if they are going to make that decision, we have to unfortunately be in that decision process.

Many of you know we have often redirected you off of a 175, a 200 and even a 250 if we felt you were not a candidate for that set up. Which is another reason why the Pantera IV model was not built larger by inches for a 225, and only rates a 200. We wanted to offer a more affordable overall rig, that was representative of those larger 250 warrior rigs.

We also only built the Advantage Elite series consoles where nothing larger than those X5 and 700 series units would go in dash, to regulate the price you pay. Though we have been hammered on that one as people frequently say it should be up to them if they want to spend $5000 on electronics in a $30,000 boat.

From rods to reels, rain gear, accessories, LCRS, vehicles and even our bait selection we have raised the bar. And while it has long been time to evaluate the sport, there will still be a need for those $50k rigs for those who can afford them. The acceptance of the lesser packages is the threshold we seem to have trouble crossing.

Though we all need to help!

Rick Pierce
Bass Cat Boats

[River Rat]

Good post, Brian.  So, I'm not the only one who has been been caught-up trying to "keep up with the Jones' (or Reese's, VanDam's, etc)."

The other week I was telling Paula how much I would like a 22 foot ride for the long Erie runs and she looked at me kinda sideways.  I asked "what?" and she said "Remember how much fun you had running the river in the old Venture (a 15'10" model with a 65 Suzuki)?  That's when you went to have fun and you caught fish!  Now, you have a very nice Champion but still want more... You're getting too caught-up in this."  It kinda set me back and now this reinforces what is most important.

Scott

[Waterfoul]

Started tourney fishing in a 14' Glastron with a Merc. 50.  Cashed some checks too.  Years later stepped up to a 17' Tracker Pro with a Mariner 40 hp.  Great little boat and loved every minute of it.  Several years later I moved into my present boat, 18' Triton with a Merc 150 on it.  I see myself in this boat for many years to come.  But man do I miss being able to fish the river like I did in the other boats... 

[Durand Dan]

Great point made on how the kids want everything today their parents have worked 30 years for. I started with a canoe which I had for many years. Then I graduated to a Bass Tracker with a 25hp Johnson. I used to love drawing the #1 tournament start position and finding a way to hide as everyone blasted by me. Now I own a Tracker Tournament 18. A little over 18' with an 87" beam and a 90hp Merc. All for under $17,000. Its a great inland tournament boat with lots of room. Of course it would be nice to have the Ranger or Bass Cat, but I'd rather buy a rental home instead to make money.

[thedude]

he makes a good point, but if you want to use 20K for the baseline of a "1st boat".... heck, you can get a lightly used 4-5 year old boat in the 19-21' range with a 200+ for 15-20k easy, especially in this economy. Why anyone would buy a new 17'/115 at that price when a faster, more comfortable boat can be had for half that - is beyond me. If there's anything i learned since buying my first boat - its get the biggest, fastest boat you can afford. Maybe thats a 17'/115, maybe its 21'/250 - if I had 20k to spend on a boat, you can be sure i'd be in something a lot bigger than a 17/115 though.

Also - i don't see how you can fault the Pros for running top-of-line rigs either - overkill or not. They are competing for 100s of thousands of dollars and the boat companies in many cases are handing them boats to use for nothing (or close to it). I'm competing for 500$ or a grand or 2 - something like that - so i don't quite put myself in the same situation.

my first boat was  14' jon boat with a jet motor i bought from my old boss whom i worked for in college. i spent 24k on my bass boat - and in hindsight, wish i would have spent the time to find a good used one! Oh well, i will make the one i have last now (probably until i'm 40  ) cuz thats the bed i made.

He is right though, it seems like now everyone wants to be "the pro". To do that you gotta have the big rig, the fancy shirt, the high dollar gear, the big truck, the million decals, the logo'd visor, the 300$ glasses. etc (everything but the fish hahaha).  Now -a lot of these guys are great fisherman, no doubt about it - but there's a lot of posers in there too.  Like if i dressed up like that - i'd be a poser.
In the end, we just need to realize its not the blling that makes the fisherman, its the weighin bag.

[Redbone]

Good topic.

I have a 16' Lund with a 25hp mariner.  My Step dad gave it to me as a xmas present.  It doesnt have near the storage or the hp of a bass boat. But it is just enough to fish tourneys.  I am always jealous of the nice boats I fish with, but I dont believe that makes them a better fisherman, just more comfortable and stylish .

Looking to upgrade to a 186 triton next year.  But for now my "old lady" wont let me get a newer boat.  And she wont let me sell my Harley.  So this year... I'll be the little guy again. 

Tight Lines!
Kris

[t-bone]

I have a Ranger z20 with a 225 - why? because I can afford it and I use it a LOT. I also bought this boat after I was 40, well established both financially and with family. Took care of the important things first, then I felt I could indulge my hobby a bit.

I started with a used 16ft Tracker Deep V with a 40hp and I used it a lot and loved that boat. Other than storage sucked, livewells were problematic, batteries didn't last... but the boat is still in the family down in Florida.

I do see the issue with the younger generation wanting it all now - I think that those problems became overly apparent with the mortgage and credit crisis. No one wants to save or wait until they truly can afford it.

Younger anglers shouldn't feel embarrassed to own a boat that fits there financial situation. I make sure I let people know that I really like their boat and equipment regardless of the cost. They need to be proud of their boat and their situation. On the other hand, I'm not going to feel embarrassed about owning a boat that is well within my means and provides me some great experiences to fish and meet people. We need to remember that we aren't all in the same boat here - pun intended.

[River Rat]

I just had the chance to watch last weeks episode of "The Bass Pros" and the question for Rick Clunn was what was his opinion of a "tournament boat".  He used his personal boat as his first choice for 99% of the waters around the country; it is a 18' Tracker V-hull with a Merc 150.  He made the comparisons between that ride and the bigger 19'-21' modified V's that most people "think" they need.  At no point did he say a negative word about the bigger boats, their usefulness, or the people that use them.  He did say: "There are misconceptions (out there) that to be a good tournament angler, or to fish big tournaments, you need a $40-50k boat, it has to be 20'-21' long, and that simply isn't true."  That was followed up by his mentioning that, and I'll paraphrase, if you're fishing the big water like Erie or Ontario, buy the big boat if you want, he just doesn't want the "young angler" to feel like they need the big fancy rig to be able to fish.

Also, as for my original post, I was not saying that in the near future I'm not going to get at least a 21'er or that my current 19.5' is inadequate.  I was merely adding an example of how easy it is to get wrapped up in "wanting more."  Maybe cause I'm in a spot where I could go buy a bigger new boat this afternoon, if I wished, is one reason I'd like a 21, mostly it is about room and safety for me and my family.  I don't think anyone was saying that if you have worked hard, taken care of your family, you still should feel "embarrassed" for having a "bigger" ride.

[mikesmiph]

Wow, Great topic. As many of you know, this is going to be the first year I tourney fish. I have never been wealthy, but I dream. I'm almost 53 yrs old and have never had more than a rowboat, just what I was raised with. When I decided to get into tourneys, I bought what I could afford at the time, an 87 Nitro, that aint too pretty. It gets me on the water, can keep up with most boats, and is WAY better to fish out of than a rowboat. Yes, I dream of the 60-70K boats all the time, but I know my limits. My master plan is to upgrade every two years. I will put some money into my Nitro, make it as nice as I can for the next guy, and hopefully not lose much money in two years. All the time saving for the next one. I hate payments. I'm sure if I pinch somewhere, I could get the loan and buy a new boat. Sometimes, I'm tempted. For now, I'm going to stick to my guns, and fish out of my antique, and not care who laughs at me.

[t-bone]

I saw this episode, completely agree and I thought it was great. I think he pointed out that the class of boat he was sitting in, is a adequate boat to fish tournaments in. I think a lot of people wrongly assume otherwise.

If your in big money tourneys and doing well, then I think you'd be silly not fishing out of a boat that would increase your winnings significantly through the boat and motor incentive programs. But that is a very small number of people that should even worry about that.

My comments about having the boat I want wasn't directed at any of the previous posts, I was just making a personal statement. I'm under the impression that fishing out of my current boat does make me a better angler as there are plenty of advantages of compared to the previous aluminum boat - stealth, boat position, stability - loads of things that give me confidence and improved capabilities (not to mention fun). Are they worth $30K more? Sure - why not!

I just had the chance to watch last weeks episode of "The Bass Pros" and the question for Rick Clunn was what was his opinion of a "tournament boat".  He used his personal boat as his first choice for 99% of the waters around the country; it is a 18' Tracker V-hull with a Merc 150.  He made the comparisons between that ride and the bigger 19'-21' modified V's that most people "think" they need.  At no point did he say a negative word about the bigger boats, their usefulness, or the people that use them.  He did say: "There are misconceptions (out there) that to be a good tournament angler, or to fish big tournaments, you need a $40-50k boat, it has to be 20'-21' long, and that simply isn't true."  That was followed up by his mentioning that, and I'll paraphrase, if you're fishing the big water like Erie or Ontario, buy the big boat if you want, he just doesn't want the "young angler" to feel like they need the big fancy rig to be able to fish.

Also, as for my original post, I was not saying that in the near future I'm not going to get at least a 21'er or that my current 19.5' is inadequate.  I was merely adding an example of how easy it is to get wrapped up in "wanting more."  Maybe cause I'm in a spot where I could go buy a bigger new boat this afternoon, if I wished, is one reason I'd like a 21, mostly it is about room and safety for me and my family.  I don't think anyone was saying that if you have worked hard, taken care of your family, you still should feel "embarrassed" for having a "bigger" ride.

[fasttrack]

I finally got my own first bass boat ('93 Ranger 482VS, Merc 150) last year at the age of 38. Shared a boat with my dad for 10 years before that (16.5' Crestliner) and mostly fished tournaments with friends with bass boats. Before that my dad and I had a 15' jon boat decked out for both fishin and duck hunting. I, too, waited till the family and my business were established/secure. And even so, I got an older well-maintained used boat that I could pay cash for and still have money to buy accessories, etc. Lots of good points in the article as well as other posts. We all 'do what we can'. I think these economic times will humble a lot of people. If one good thing comes from it I hope people learn the old-fashion lesson of the value of a buck, and how to save/spend it wisely. I'm thankful for Dutch parents who instilled that in me - never been behind in finances in my life and its not because I make a ton of income. OK, off my soap box now...

[River Rat]

T - I was not "challenging" your personal statement or choice.  I was only trying to add to the conversation and further elaborate on my own post.  I will say this: this particular topic has made me do a lot of thinking...

For the "youth" aspect, I can remember how bad I wanted to be in the "cool" bass boats while my Dad had a 12' Mirrorcraft with a 15hp Johnson.  I hate to admit this but one day a bunch of my friends and cousins were all going fishing with our Dad's and uncle's on Pickerel Lake in Newaygo, well I told my Dad I wanted to go fishing with "so-n-so" cause they had a bass boat and we didn't.  Needless to say my Dad said "OK" and ended up staying back at the campground.  I found out later that he was crushed that the boat was more important to me than fishing with him... which was not my intention. That memory hurts me even now typing it out.  Kids will be kids, obviously.  I just don't want them to think that they have to have the big shiny rig to be happy.

Scott

[Jmcfarland]

As the 24 year old "kid" wanting to get into a 18'er with a 150 or so motor on it and still renting an apartment this topic couldn't come at a better time. I've been talking to my wife all winter about getting a boat but she is not so compelled as she thinks our own house would be a wiser way to spend our savings. After reading all this and having a perfectly good (but old and dull) 16'sylvan with 50 horse johnson I think I'll hold out a little longer and make the hopefully smarter decision.

[hunlee]

Yous wont have to worry bout this much longer as the asion carps will spread on through the big water an up into the rivers distroying all other fish!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Hunlee is saddened by this but we must face facts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Them carps are no good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
hunlee

[skeeterman190]

 Great topic and one that I personally Mill over everyday..A constant in my mind. Im one of the young guys..And unfortuanately i have to worry about the almighty dollar everytime i sign up for a tournament. I was fortunate enough to choose a carrer that pays great money when things are rolling. Im a union Bricklayer and every dime i have comes from the sweat of my brow and hard work. I bought the boat that i currently still run 2003 skeeter 19' w 150 yami when i was 20. Ive been through the rigors and have worked my way up. As i stand these days there isnt a minute that goes by that i dont wonder what i could do if I had that big 21' rig and all the electronics in the world. I learned to fish and now i wanna step up and fish the bigger things but i just cant see spennding all the money needed to just compete..Let alone cash a check. I fished the BFL last year as a boater for the first time.Never seen Lake St.Clair or Lake Erie until i went there to practice. And i didnt fair that great. But i will say this that if there is anyone out there that has knowledge of fishing and can just put the dock talk about what you need to have to win in one ear and out the other and go out there and find what will work for u and you limitations you will do just fine come the end of the year when all the points are tallied. There were only 2 tourneys i went into last year that i felt deep inside that i had a chance of getting a check and 1 that i shouldve had a check in that i thought i was on nothing. Lost fish cost me on that one. Burt and Mullet is a test of skill and strategy. I really enjoy sight fishing and the strategy that goes into it.. For those of you out there that think its not a skill or theres no strategy into it come try it at that level sometime. The second was an area in the Detroit river that i felt i could get 16-17 lbs on the first day of the super and guarantee myself a payday if day 2 never panned out or i fished the area out.. Just never got the big bites i thought i would get. Ended w 13 lbs and a trip to the Regional. I guess the point im getting at is that though I might not be the biggest name you hear of because I lack the boat and electronics. Doesnt mean that I dont have the talent to win at that level just not the Bank account. Im ok with that at this point in time. I was so proud of myself for what I accomplished no matter if I cashed a check or not just to know that i had what i took too just compete made my year.

[markgoetsch]

Well I bought my first boat last year 07' 19.5' triton w/ a 200 and I had just turned 27.  I love the boat and if I didn't live a block from lake erie I'd never need anything more but after seeing the waves erie and st. clair can dishout I really would like a 21'-22' boat and maybe even a walleye boat.  But at the same time my boat is payed for and I'm always debating with myself if I should get the bigger boat.  Boat payment or no boat payment???, that is the question. 

[skeeterman190]

 Good point..no payments are nice.. Let me tell u this dont doubt what you can do in that boat.. It doesnt matter if u have a 21or 18 ft boat if you dont know how to drive in those big waves it makes no difference. Just ask about half the field i saw on the Mississippi river this fall at the Regional. I was passing 21 foot rangers like they were standing still. Alot of it has to do with the driver and confidence u have.. Trust me you could tell that day who has been on lake erie and was from the Michigan division.. If we didnt catch too many fish atleast we could impress u with our boat driving skills.

[markgoetsch]

That is for sure I grew up in wisconsin and I've fished the mississippi many times along with all other inland lakes and I thought I knew what rough water was.  I'll be the first to tell you that I've become 10X better driver this year than I ever was and I feel like I can drive through almost anything. I was in 8' this year and I'll say I don't want to be in them ever again but I can also say I didn't spear one wave.  I know my boat can handle alot but I keep thinking I could handle that much more in a larger boat.  So for me the debate still continues......

[ROI Outdoors]

Great read, very perperplexing topic.  I think the head on the nail with increasing tourney costs is boat availablity and the perception that the boat makes the angler.  Similiar to how TV/Movies portray the "average person" the bass community has started to gain a "hollywood" perspective of what they should fishing out of.  5 years ago there wasn't even a tenth of the amount of bass fishing shows or tournaments televised - I'm not blaming BASS/ESPN but they sure haven't lowered anyones perceptions of what is "needed" to be competitive.

There is enough used inventory on the market today to support those looking for an upgrade but the problem is a major part of that inventory is everywhere else but here in Michigan. We could use a few more marina's up here selling and servicing bass boats - more competition equals better service and an increased availabilty of boats with more competitive pricing.  I'm not implying that the dealers we have don't do an excellent job but I think they themselves would benefit from a few more players in the market, its business economics 101.  Can you correlate the scarcity of used/new inventory here in Michigan to the scarcity of places that sell and service bass boats?  Not sure but it would be interesting to look into.

Tournament Fishing is probably the most costly sport/hobby out there today so what can be done to slow the inflating costs or even lower them?  One aspect that would completely change the game here in Michigan is extending our season or better yet keeping it open year round - this isn't rocket science and yet it seems we have turned this debate into something that rivals the Dems Health Care Bill.  Being smack dab in the Freshwater Capital of the World I think we have the opportunity to do something about the rising costs of tournament fishing - how we go about doing that is the question we really need to answer so why not start the brainstorming now.

That whole tangent aside it sure is fun to show up in "tin boat" and cash checks, its hard to watch guys that have spent $50000 come up short week in and week out - when its all send and done it all boils down to maximizing the Return On every tournament Investment and the boat part of the investment is by far the most complicated to get right.  All that said I hope to be the owner of a 2003 193 Champ w/200 VMAX on Monday so keep your fingers crossed for a brother!

[Skulley]

Quite a few years ago there was this guy that would show up to every tournament on Cass Lake.  He and his partner would fish out of this crappy looking 18 foot jon boat.  He would whoop everyones butt out there.  I often wonder what ever happened to that guy.  He would also show up to Kent and do the same.  My point is that the boat doesn't make the angler........a weigh in bag with a limit of fish does.  I think I am quoting someone from a previous post on this subject.  Any way this is a great topic.  

It also follows my view point on entry fees.  My view is that no inland lake should have a $100 plus entry fee.  On big water.........yes.  That has always been the norm.  But people still pay $100 plus for inland lake tournaments.  So I may be the "Lone Ranger" on this subject that feels that way.  It used to be many years ago that everything on big water was $100.  Inland lake Tournaments were in the 50 to 75 dollar range.  Week nite NBAA is $40 a boat roughly.  Tuesday Nite Bellevilles are $50 a boat.  Weekend NBAA One on One I think was $40 a guy last year....maybe $60.  Don't remember.  

BD