2011 Michigan Bass Regulations Proposal Petition

[djkimmel]

Been quite a while since I was on the committee or the MUCC board of directors so I'm checking on what the latest practices are.

[Puma]

I have a close friend who is currently in the State House and we have discussed this subject.  One of the best ways of getting a open season of any kind for bass, is to provide them with the one thing that will make them take notice - money.  Tournament fishing brings in many more dollars to local economies and to the state, than casual fisherman.  So, if it was worded to be a catch and release, but allow tournament weigh-ins, then release, both for bass and walleye, we might get legislative action.  Then, the DNR would not be able to ever change it.  Just my two cents.

[wounded minnow]

Well 111 signatures and climbing!



I have been asked by many people what on Earth I plan to do with the signatures once I get them. Well after a lot of thought here is what I plan to do with them. I am open to any other suggestions anyone may have as well...



1) The website/service hosting the petition gives me the ability to print out the whole petition including all the signatures. So I will print out several copies of the petition.



2) I will include a letter that I am going to start working on stating all the reasons why the Michigan DNRE should consider doing away with the closed Bass season statewide and turning that season into catch & immediate release. (Scientific Studies, Economical Impact, etc...)



3) I am going to work on getting statements from Michigan businesses that support the changes and why they support them. Not just tackle shops, but Michigan based tackle companies, restaurants, motels, etc...



4) It would help me out tremendously if you guys could help me out with a list of businesses I should contact for statements. Like I said, tackle shops, Michigan tackle companies, motels, restaurants, etc... If any of you own businesses like this, PLEASE send me a statement of why you support the change via email to woundedminnow@ymail.com I will then print and submit with the rest of the stuff.



Now, who will I be sending these packets of information to???



Basically I will be mailing out this information to the Michigan DNRE and any Michigan Congress members, Michigan Senators, Michigan's Governor's office, etc... Basically any entity that is somebody in the State of Michigan will receive a packet. Hopefully it will be enough to turn enough heads to make something happen.



I think we all know 111 signatures is NOT going to turn very many heads, therefore I need all of you to do everything you can to increase the amount of signatures on the petition. We need signatures not only from Michigan residents, but anyone who travels to Michigan to fish for Bass. I plan to leave the petition open until Friday, May 14th. After that I will be printing it out and putting together the packets to put in the mail. I am hoping that is enough time to get 1,000+ signatures on there.



Thank you for your time,



Kory

[thedude]

I have a close friend who is currently in the State House and we have discussed this subject.  One of the best ways of getting a open season of any kind for bass, is to provide them with the one thing that will make them take notice - money.  Tournament fishing brings in many more dollars to local economies and to the state, than casual fisherman.  So, if it was worded to be a catch and release, but allow tournament weigh-ins, then release, both for bass and walleye, we might get legislative action.  Then, the DNR would not be able to ever change it.  Just my two cents.

yeah - how about making it so a BASS  elite series or FLW event could come and fish St Clair or saginaw bay in April or MAY! talk about big $$$ coming in and a great tournament for either tour.

When it comes to money you have to think big - why don't we get big-time elite series events EVERY year or big-time FLW events - we have more freshwater and THE most acres of the best smallie water in the world - yet we rarely see a huge event. Let the big  boys come in and bring their wallets draw some attention to the sport and pump some dollars into local economies

I'm sure Bay City, Saginaw and Detroit would all be more than happy to see a few outside dollars come trickling through.

We need some of our Michigan elite (like KVD and Zona ) to get on this bandwagon.

[Fishmael]

Yeah, St. Clair is approximately 22 miles by 24 miles...should be enough fishing spots for 102 Elite series boats.  Van Dam said at the D&R seminar that St. Clair is the hottest smallie lake in the world right now.  Why wouldn't they have a tourney of that caliber?  They'll drive to Cali to fish.  Seems like this would be a little closer!  Can you imagine them going over 100 lbs w/ smallmouth?  That would be pretty cool.

[MIBassKid]

Contact the motels and campgrounds in Cheboygan, I bet they will have your back. Pretty sure the BFL on Burt/Mullett is keeping that place alive.

[djkimmel]

Yeah, St. Clair is approximately 22 miles by 24 miles...should be enough fishing spots for 102 Elite series boats.  Van Dam said at the D&R seminar that St. Clair is the hottest smallie lake in the world right now.  Why wouldn't they have a tourney of that caliber?  They'll drive to Cali to fish.  Seems like this would be a little closer!  Can you imagine them going over 100 lbs w/ smallmouth?  That would be pretty cool.

Part of the problem getting more large tournaments into Michigan, and St. Clair in particular, has been a lack of support and interest from the local community in hosting the tournament. When given a choice between good fishing in one location, and local support in dollars and services in another area, they will most often pick the location providing support.

Last I knew, Metro Beach was even charging the big tournaments a large fee to have their event there. If I had someone charging me and another someone offering me free or even an incentive, I would not pick the one that charges me no matter how good the fishing. Especially in this very tough economy with the tournament organizations not doing real well.

Some type of plan to get local communities behind and showing they want bigger tournaments here would also be important on that end. Though, as I mentioned before, tying tournaments directly to a bass season change decreases the odds of success in Michigan at this time.

[Got Fish??]

 As I voiced my opinion in the other thread. I would also like an extended CXR season but, we have to be clever on how we go about wording this petition. Or it may come back to hunt us.

[Skulley]

As I voiced my opinion in the other thread. I would also like an extended CXR season but, we have to be clever on how we go about wording this petition. Or it may come back to hunt us.

Couldn't agree more with Got Fish??.  Phrasing in a petition is key.  The verbage coming back to haunt us could be fatal.  A petition should be run by a lawyer first so that the interpretation is clear and concise. 

BD           

[djkimmel]

I'd go out and try to sign up a few lawyers as members but I don't want everyone mad at me

[djkimmel]

Please remember he was nice enough to do something and this is not a petition to meet Michigan legal petition rules. More just to show that there is a lot of interest in getting a real movement started. It is valuable for that reason. The legal stuff will come later.

[ROI Outdoors]

Please remember he was nice enough to do something and this is not a petition to meet Michigan legal petition rules. More just to show that there is a lot of interest in getting a real movement started. It is valuable for that reason. The legal stuff will come later.

So how do we start the legal stuff now? 

I do not think a lack of support will be a road block at all; the road block(s) will be a lack of agreement between anglers as to what specific action should or should not be taken and why.  For example I personally think there should be a distinction between Possession and Harvest - this is nor never would be a gray area for CO's, a stringer is a stringer, an ice box is an ice box, and a Livewell is a Livewell.  Personally I think Catch & Release is the ultimate gray area - is it immediate release or pic and immediate release?  Is there is a time limit on how long you can have that fish in the boat?  Is it kosher to take measurements of the fish?  Is it OK to put a fish in a Bag-Em Bass Bag to weigh it on the boat or does that violate C&R Season policy?  A CO's job is all ready complicated enough so lets simplify things for them and simply provide a distinction between HARVEST & Catch Release.  Are not all tournaments Catch & Release? 

According to DNR & the now disbanded SALBRC Committee report from 2008 using information from over 10 years ago (USFWS 1999, USFWS and USBOC 2001) over 30% of all licensed anglers in Michigan primarily target bass; they then go on to site the national explosion of tournament participation trends - right after they cite that MI has the 4th HIGHEST TOURNAMENT PARTICIPATION IN THE COUNTRY they go to say that the #5 state in participation had seen a 55% growth in a 4 year period.  Then they drop the "Currently we have no definitive numbers on the trend of bass fishing tournaments in Michigan". 

Because they have no "definitive numbers" they conclude that tournament anglers only make up only 0.1% of Michigan's fishing population by only counting Federation Club Numbers.  Ironically the 0.1% is probably the number of MI tournament anglers who are actually in a Federation Club.  This survey does not really provide any meat outside of its very CONSERVATIVE estimate on the economic impact Bass Fishing has in Michigan - "An estimate of the total economic impact of bass fishing activity in Michigan, $321 million annually, should be considered a minimum given that bass fishing is probably the most heavily marketed fishery of all species and most sponsored fishing tournaments are directed at bass (Schramm et al. 1991)".  Let's do the disbanded committee of the Smallmouth and Largemouth Bass Regulations Committee (SALBRC) and the DNR a favor and get them more "definitive numbers" - I don't any tournament organization in MI that wouldn't prodive this information in a 2 minute phone call or 1 sentence email. 

Basically this entire survey/study concludes that Bass Fishing is a CASH COW for the State and then spends the rest of time trying to minimize Tournament Anglers in the grand scheme of things.  This is a prime example of political/special interests groups slanting the perceived truth in order to push the agenda(s) of more organized fishing and conservation subgroups that could care less about those green and brown fish.  This is why we need to do this right, I understand it is give-get when dealing in these matters but if we let common sense guide the way there is no valid reason not allow an extended Catch & Release Tournament Season as well.  The DNR would never have to Boomshock or pay for college kids and/or hippies to do creel surveys on Bass Lakes where tournaments are held because every tournament would be a free creel survey - and it would be Free!  Why stop there; might as well contact Toyota to get them to fund the Toyota Michigan Share-a-Lunker program - better yet why not call Ford or GM seeing as they reside here anyways.

My as usual overly long-winded point is why not do something right the 1st time; quite honestly the extended C&R simply substitutes one gray area with another - I don't mind gray but BLACK & WHITE looks much better.......

We need to get this petition over to Jack or Jim because they could most likely get the desired 1000 John Hannock's in just a few days.

Also why is it that BASS Anglers are by FAR HANDS DOWN THE LARGEST MAJORITY of Anglers in Michigan but get stipened by a 10-man Musky Club?  Organizating efforts would make the 100,000 MUCC members look subtle so let's figure that one out so we can start implenting common sense change vs. political clout.

[djkimmel]

There is no gray in Michigan catch and release. It specifically states immediate release.

SALBRC was not a good representation of nonbiased, non-agenda work. Luckily, things have improved quite a bit since then so, despite the possibility of a person or two who might not want to let that go, attitudes and a willingness to discuss this issue in an unbiased way should be much better now.

It was actually the larger, organized walleye groups that did not support having catch and immediate release bass start before walleye season.

Hunters and anglers are often slow to get together in large numbers, and often disagree more amongst themselves to hurt chances of getting things accomplished successfully without much 'help' from the general public. Which is why I stated somewhere earlier in this discussion that we should come to an agreement amongst ourselves first behind a common and acceptable compromise before we start getting other's involved. I did not enjoy speaking at all those meetings only to be undermined more by fellow bass anglers than by anyone else too often because of an unwillingness to accept a compromise that is feasible.

Maybe we should have a vote right now on here - can everyone accept and work towards just extending catch and immediate release the rest of the closed season? Or will some be determined to push for more aggressive options anyway? If enough of us disagree amongst ourselves, we will have a much harder road when we involve 'everyone.'

Granted, other proposals may be put out anyway if this goes 'public' but I would personally like to see 100% cooperation and agreement amongst ourselves rather than splinter (and weaken) our efforts. So, what does everyone think?

I'm talking about what you would accept not your ultimate dream season.

[djkimmel]

Now... if someone has the time and energy out there to drive a more aggressive platform and stick with it through the entire process, winning enough people over somehow, I'm not saying I would not provide and advice. And I have already provided a place for public discussion. It would take a very focused, determined and diplomatic person with a lot of free time during the day on their hands to have a chance at all if anything is said about having more remote weigh in bass tournaments on inland lakes.

[mikesmiph]

I personally, would accept a C&R season for all of the year, not included in C&K season. Not my dream, but as Dan said, its a compromise.

[Durand Dan]

I think its fine the way it stands today. Mr. Kimmel has made great strides in allowing us to pursue Bass almost 8 months a year. If we were a southern state where yearly growth rates are 2 to 3 times as great I would think differently. But here in the northern states Bass need a break.

[ROI Outdoors]

As stated before the issue we will run into with this getting the 100% support from those who do actually care about what we are talking about.  This is a perfect opportunity to actually make Michigan a desired Tournament destination for the majors and to make Michigan a Tournament Friendly location; it isn't all about tournaments but if you want to maximize the economic benefits we have to define the difference between C & R and Harvest.  I'd really like to know how many tickets are issued for guys fishing for Bass "out of season" because the last time I talked to a CO from the Plainwell office he soley responsible for 100 launch sites so I don't think he spends much time in the woods with binoculars in March and April trying to catch guys whacking bass.  As far as being a Northern state we should have the ability to whack bass anytime we want; growth rates are slower simply because of water temp. and metabolism; water temperature plays the largerst role in mortality so the fish that need the break are down south where water temps. get into 80's every year.  If there is any closing of anything it should be when water temps. reach a certain temperature vs. some random guess on when bass are spawning each year.

Are we going to fix everything no but we shouldn't concede common sense just because that is what we do in Michigan - common sense seems to be lacking here in Michigan so it would be nice change of pace if we did something because the right thing to do.  Lets get a poll up with some different language or least discuss what that different language is.  My vote is distinguish the difference between harvest and C & R so that tournaments can be run in as soon as there is open water; instead of everyone from Michigan driving to Kentucky or Indiana they could drive up here to fish lakes actually worth the drive.  We have more freshwater than anyone else in the world so let's try and actually utilize it a little more.

Kory already started the fire so let's add some gas and get this thing cooking......

[Dinkfinder]

Ok, I have read the petition, every posting...I am a bit lost Why do we "need" this?

I have not seen or read any real reason why this is needed...

Am I correct that it is a "want"?

Just trying to understand, the process and reason behind this

[djkimmel]

Many Michigan bass anglers want to fish as soon as there is open water.

But it is illegal to even attempt to catch bass until the last Saturday in April in the Lower Peninsula and May 15 in the Upper Peninsula.

If there is no scientific proof that bass need that protection of a completely closed season (there isn't);
Considering we voted a few years ago in Michigan to approve and support scientific management of our fish and game resources (Proposal D or G - been a while);
We should allow a longer legal bass season for those who wish to fish a longer bass season.

Granted, many anglers already do fish bass out of season and have for about 30 years now with some frequency, some of us choose to follow the law and would also like to fish more legally.

The petition is trying to say simply, make it legal to catch and release bass the rest of the calendar year that is not already part of the regular possession season - approximately Memorial weekend to December 31, give or take.

[djkimmel]

To be effective here, I truly think it is important to reach a consensus first that we can all live with before we push it out to a wider audience. If we are fractured even amongst ourselves, any change will be much harder. If we can't compromise here and come up with something we can settle for, how good might we do with a wider audience that will include lake associations, walleye anglers, musky anglers, possibly anti's, people who believe bass need to be protected, etc., etc.

As I have said, anyone who wants to pass a bass season change right now that involves tournaments with a remote weigh in must be prepared for a very tough and intense effort. You're talking a ton of day time for phone calls, interviews, public meetings, meetings with involved parties (lake associations), maybe legislators and convincing fellow anglers to go along, some of whom do not like competitive fishing, yet still get a say. If a suitable person does not step forward who can do that for at least probably the next 12 months, we may not get any change.

I would love to have the time to do that, and to believe common sense and financial information would win the day, but I can't do something like this at this time. And I do not believe telling the legislature and/or the MDNRE how good it will before the economy will overrule lake associations and others who do not want more tournaments.

I feel pretty good that this early in the new situation that I'm already hearing and seeing signs that we might have a chance to get more catch and release fishing anyway. After taking 20 years to just get a statewide extension, this seems amazing to me.