General lipless crankbait questions

[BNL]

I am pretty inexperienced with lipless crankbaits (have a hard time putting the jig down) and really want to get better at it this season. I have several questions I need help with regarding this technique.

1) what knot do you prefer for this technique?

2) what is your favorite brand of lipless crankbait?

3) what is your preferred rod? doesn't have to be a brand, it can be, but I am interested in both brand and power/style rod?

4) does anyone fish a lipless crank on braided line with a leader of mono/fluoro?

That is all I can think of right now... I am sure I will have more questions.

Thanks for the help!
BNL

[Cy]

I use the palomar knot for my lipless baits

I like the Xcalibur Xr50 and the Strike King Red Eye, make sure you check out the one knocker version of Xr.

I use a Loomis 7' MH Crank Bait rod.  I use a 6:1 retrieve reel.  Normally I throw them on 12 lb fluoro

I will use braid on them sometimes, if I am fishing nothing but heavy nasty weeds and grass.  I never use a leader.  I prefer not to use braid on cranks unless I am trolling them, then I would use a leader.

One thing you probably already know but lipless baits are best in the grass, especially newly emerged grass or grown grass that is still a couple feet from the surface.

Good Luck.

Cy

[Firefighter Jeff]

   Hmmmmm my answers are very similar to Cy's.

 #1  I don't think knots matter (as long as it's not a loop knot), use your favorite.  I happen to use an improved cinch knot.  No particular reason.

 #2  I really like the Excalibur xr50.  They cast nice, look nice and hold up well.  Plus they catch fish.  I wasn't quite as thrilled with the one knocker version.  I haven't used the Strike King Red Eye much but it has a similar shape, and I have heard they may have a slight difference in action.  Worth trying.

 #3  I use the less expensive 7' medium action KVD crankin rod (Fiberglass)  Hmmm of course I only have one rod for crankin.  Anyway I have a high speed reel on it and use #12 flourocarbon line.

 #4  N/A

                        Jeff  

[Manxfishing]

For me

1.) I use a snap, It's easy to change out the lures

2.) I use the Bill Lewis, Yo-Zuri Rattl'n Vibe (love the bluegill) or the XCalibur Xr50 and a few Evergreen for silent days

3.) The crank rod is a Kistler Med. 6-6" casting rod with a Curado 7:1 with 10#
XT. (it's also the jerk bait rod)

4.) I've tried braid with the Floro leader.
I don't think I caught any more or less then with the Mono these days
But with the braid I did think I was ripping it from a few fish

[TCook]

Most of the time I stick with the XR and XRK 50s and 75s sometimes I will go with the lucky craft LV200 for the diff sound or the LV500 for deeper water. Your line choice is always dictated by the depth you want your bait to run and if your fishing grass or open water. I will use 17-20lb mono for shallow water, 12-15lb flouro for open water, and 30-50lb braid for ripping grass. For my setups I use a MH loomis crankin rod for open water with a 6.2:1 reel and for ripping grass I go with a stiffer MH rod usually paired with a 7:1 reel. You will lose more fish this way but its the only way I can rip the trap free and feel when the bait is ticking the grass.

[FishermanJohn]

I mix it up with the Xcalibur XR, Lucky Craft LV, and Strike King Red Eye, depending on the amount of rattle and size/profile I want.  I use a Uni knot to tie it on. 

My favorite lipless combos are
Quantum Tour Edition 7.0:1/St Croix Mojo 7'MH/mod with 30# braid for heavy grass/snaggy areas
Shimano Citica 6.3:1/St Croix Avid 7'MH/fast with 12# fluoro or 14# mono in all other situations

Not a fan of the fluoro leader with braid...I really want to be able to rip the bait hard and fast to get a reaction bite.  I don't feel I miss fish on braid since I use a moderate action rod and keep my drag looser.

[2k JIGS]

Line: Stay away from BRAID, stick with mono or my favorite Fluorocarbon. I don't think the knot really matters, use your favorite. When fishing a trap fast you need stretch in your line to get a good hook set. Braid is to strong and to sensitive, you find your self loosing a lot of fish by pulling the trap out of their mouths before they have locked on.

Rod: I use a Lamiglas (palehorse custom) rod. The heavy power mod. action will give you enough power to rip and the right tip to ensure your hook set. I have yet to loss a fish on my Lamiglas rod, and I throw traps all year round. Heavy glass rod is the way to go.

Trap: The yo-zuri rattle vibe is by far the best trap on the market. The paint never chips, perfect weight @ 5/8 oz, loud rattles, and the head of the bait is perfect. Red craw, and the white craw are my favorite.

How to fish the trap:1: Try to find ambush points in the grass...(open cuts in a weed bed) run your trap in the grass and rip it into the cut. Then let the trap flutter to the bottom. Most of the time you will get the hit on the drop. Try to always stay in contacted with the vegetation    

2: You can also fish a trap in the same places you are jig fishing in open water. Work it just like you do your jig but rip it up 3 to 4 ft at a time.

3: Fishing the edge of the weed beds: Throw the trap tight to the edge of the beds. Get the speed of your trap up then stop it for 2 seconds rip it as hard as you can, let it drop for 2 seconds then pick the speed back up and do it again. You should get 3 to 4 of those sequences a cast.

Many people fish a trap different, this is how I do it all year long. If you want some on the water help my boat is open from time to time I live north of GR.  

[Durand Dan]

The Yo-Zuri Rattl'n Vibe is also my favorite, but I use a lot of Cotton Cordell's because they are inexpensive and work well. The 1/2oz Cordell is awesome on inland Largemouth. I also use a loop knot on all Lipless and Cranks. I feel it gives better action as I tend to rip and flutter the baits. You just have to check the loop often. For line I tend to use 12 to 15lb. mono on a 7ft MH Castaway rod because of the erratic way I fish the baits. It allows for better shock absorption when I get a hit. 

[McCarter]

braid can be dangerous to use when you are ripping a trap through grass.  just pay attention to where your bait is when you rip it.  i have seen a lot of guys rip the bait right out of the water and into there pants, shirts, partners.  so far i have not seen anyone take it to the face, but it will happen.  those things come out of the water fast.

i like 15 - 20 lb flouro. 

i use a 7'2" medium heavy moderate action rod.  longer rods will help you rip better, and also let you cast farther.  the moderate action helps absorb strikes and keeps the hooks from ripping out of the fish during the fight.  it also helps when you are using heavier 1/2, 5/8. or 3/4 oz baits because the rod loads up a little slower on the cast so you can really fire them out a ways.

I also really like the Xcalibur Xr lipless baits.  But the standard Bill Lewis still catches alot of fish.  Jackall makes probably the best one on the market.  Its called the TN70.  that thing is a flat out fish killer.  but they are expensive.  I had one a couple seasons back that i did really good with, especially in colder water.  i lost it to a pike and never did replace it.  i probably should. 

My favorite time to throw a trap is prespawn and early-mid fall.  when the water temps start getting around around 50 degrees, start chucking over weedy flats in 6 foot or less.  shallow points in or leading back to bays are hot too.  if you can find staging fish, they will eat a trap.  probably the best bait to throw that time of year.

Try a hot craw pattern in the spring.  anything orange and back, and put red hooks on it.  it makes a difference.  i went through a short phase where i was even putting red split rings on as well.  but that didnt seem to do much.  but red hooks on a red or orange with black craw pattern is $$$.

And dont give up on it.  just like anything else, it will take a little time to get a feel for it.  a lot of guys will stop cuz they get sick of picking weeds off the hooks everytime or think because they keep getting weeds that they are doing it wrong.  keep chucking and keep picking.  you will get the hang of how to snap so you can get em out clean most of the time.  stick with it.  your gonna be picking weeds, but the reward is well worth the effort.

McCarter himself

[Lightningboy]

Traps can take a while to learn, so don't give up easily.  I wasn't a big trap user, but after getting my butt kicked by some trap guys for a couple of seasons, I had to learn that game.  Now it's one of my go to baits.

I like a MH power, moderate action rod, with 15# fluoro.  You want your combo to have just the right combination of stiffness to rip a bait from the weeds, yet have a little "give" when you fight a fish.  You choose what feels good to you; slower rod with braid, or  faster rod with fluoro/mono.  I always use a simple palomar knot.

I always up the belly hook by one size, and make that belly hook red.  I don't feel the red hook increases bites, but I seem to get bit more on the belly hook if it's red.  Traps have a reputation for being thrown easily, a large belly hook in the mouth plus the tail hook on the outside of the mouth is harder to throw.

Aim to make contact with your traps, just like a crankbait.  "Ticking" the top of rising spring weeds is the classic situation.  Get the bait to lightly hang in the top of the weeds, then rip it free.  The sudden change in action is the trigger.

But don't limit yourself to weeds.  Anytime I throw a trap, I choose one that will make bottom contact.  In fact, sometimes my best tactic is to choose a "digger", and pound the bottom on a fast retrieve.  Hits come as the bait rebounds from hitting bottom.

Baits?  Yo-zuri rattle-n-vibe, Excalibur XR series, SK red eye shad, jackal TN series, SPRO aruku shad, LC LVR500 & 100.  Plus some more obscure ones once in a while.  I carry 20+ traps in a falcon FTO box all season long.  Hint: rounded backs with less weight for their size are better weed baits, heavy flat heads are better for digging.

Get a handful, and tie 'em on right now.  Cold water leading into Spring is one of the best times to throw a trap.

[Redbone]

I like a 7'' rod with a nice backbone. And I usually use a light braid. Normally I dont throw it shallow. I try to stay around structure deeper than 2-3'. When the bite is "on" I think it gets the bigger fish to bite using lipless.

[Manxfishing]

This is really a nice thread for me

I thought I was set with lipless baits
And after reading all the posts I think I'll try a MH rod this year with Floro
Thanx to everyone

[djkimmel]

I don't always have the patience for it, but sometimes 'bouncing' trap baits off stumps and wood is deadly. Just have to expect you'll get some snags. The right rod and line helps feel the difference so if you don't snag real solid you can bowstring the lure off the snag (and often get BIT in the process)!

[Skulley]

I am pretty inexperienced with lipless crankbaits (have a hard time putting the jig down) and really want to get better at it this season. I have several questions I need help with regarding this technique.

1) what knot do you prefer for this technique?

2) what is your favorite brand of lipless crankbait?

3) what is your preferred rod? doesn't have to be a brand, it can be, but I am interested in both brand and power/style rod?

4) does anyone fish a lipless crank on braided line with a leader of mono/fluoro?

That is all I can think of right now... I am sure I will have more questions.

Thanks for the help!
BNL

The best way to get experience is to start throwing them.  I am surprised you have waited this long to try. 

1)  I use a knot that I don't even know the name of.  I call it the 100% knot because it cinches down when you set the hook or pull the main line.

2)  I have used a lot of different lipless crank baits.  These days I like the Bill Lewis Rattle Trap, the Strike King Diamond Shad, the Strike King Red Eye Shad.

3)  I use a couple of different rods depending if I am throwing a 1/2 ounce or 3/4 ounce lipless crank.  Either the American Rodsmith David Fritts or the Quantum Tour Edition KVD.  These are both glas rods.  I usually throw all my cranks on glas rods.  No graphite for me when throwing crank baits of any kind.  As far as reels are concerned I use low ratio reels.  I like a 4.4 to 1 or a 5.3 to 1 reel for cranking.  When bass are pressured I find the slower retrieve reels for cranks get me the bites.....especially when deep cranking.

4)  Mono.  I am still not using any kind of super line.  I still use a low stretch mono.  I guess I'm a little old fashion. 

Hope this helps.  I would tell you that there are a plethora of styles that you will get from all the anglers on the forum.  I love throwing cranks.  They have always intrigued me.  I probably throw them more than anything else in my box.  Throw them and throw them a lot.  That is the only way to figure out what you like.  I also put a little bigger treble hook on my lipless baits also.  They are not always the best for hook ups and one size bigger can usually increase the hook up percentage.  At the same time going too big can impair the action of the bait.  Good luck, start throwing them often, and figure out your preference.  As you can see there are a lot of preferences in a post such as this but all these opinions can give you a good starting point.  Good luck and let us know how you do.


BD                                   

[Mojo]

Sunsetbass, McCarter and UAW all have it just about perfect. I mean it.

1) what knot do you prefer for this technique?  Palimar

2) what is your favorite brand of lipless crankbait? yazuri 5/8 baby bass prespawn , Red eye shad in Kent lk killer color in the spring, 1/2 - 3/4 red eye shad in the summer in shad colors

3) what is your preferred rod? doesn't have to be a brand, it can be, but I am interested in both brand and power/style rod?    MH FT  7'0" - glass or comatrix is a must

4) does anyone fish a lipless crank on braided line with a leader of mono/fluoro?  I go 14 mono cause them treble hooks need the extra 1/4 sec to set so I dont rip it away from em.

PS: If you like jigs ...................... boy have I got something new for you !!!   PM me when you can.

Mojo

[BNL]

Wow, thanks for all the great posts. It is a really nice thread with lots of useful information. It's a great example why I enjoy GLB so much.

You have all given me a lot to think about.

My reason for asking about knot is sometimes I think my palomar knots are a little off and might cause the bait to not run true. I actually feel really confident with the knot, I just sometimes wonder if it's the best knot for moving baits. Seems as if I might need more practice with it and maybe add some other knots into my repertoire.

I asked about brands of lipless cranks because I have mostly strike king red eyes and wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something. I picked up a couple Xcaliburs after reading about them here. Good info and you all added a few others I'm looking to get next.

I'm going to be throwing these baits on two rods and think I am on the right track. I have a Dobyns crankbait 5 power rod that I'm excited to work traps on. Also may be using my Cumara MH, even if the action is a little fast. Good tips on this one too.

I asked the line question because I really like braid with a mono leader on certain topwater applications and one setup I'd fish traps on would also be the setup I am using for topwater. I may have to swap reels onto certain rods more often than I normally do.  Is this more common than I would think? You all switch your rods and reels onto different setup based on application?  Definitely something I'm going to have to consider. I have a lot of rods/reels, but guess it's never enough.

Thanks again for all the tips.  Going to be working in this technique this spring as soon as the boat gets in the water.

[Lightningboy]

I use split rings on all my cranks & traps, so that negates any line tie centering issues.  I also feel it allows the bait more free side to side movement.  I am careful to make sure the split in the ring is off to one side; I don't want the knot to get into the split, or the split to catch on the line tie of the bait.

I know how you feel about multi use combos.  It's always a compromise, you can only carry so many.

But I'd be all set if I just had one more...

[detroit1]

I use a snap. I haven't tried any lipless baits that have come out the last couple of years, but i like my old 70's hot spots. (1 knocker)  I still have 2  floating spots that i use once in a while. I am no "lipless guy" that has a trap rod and special line, i'll throw them on my med. 7' spin rod.

[thedude]

i use palimar knot for just about everything.

i like a high-speed reel, but a 6.3:1 will do. This time of year i fish them on a glass rod with 12-20lb fluoro because there is not much weed growth. By june - i almost exlusively use 30lb power pro braid when fishing traps. It allows me to throw into the heaviest edges and rip out a clean bait. In this type of cover i have not noticed any decrease in hookups or increase in lost fish. A glass rod is a MUST when fishing braid and it will save you many times from ripping the bait clear out of the water. It will also help with hookups and getting fish into the boat. No snap because it just catches more weeds.

I use a red-eye for a few colors, but prefer the xcals as they seem to come through the weeds much better.