DNR giving tickets for "attempting to catch bass"

[djkimmel]

I think I've said enough already on this topic over the years so for now (only ) to save everyone some time, I'll only repeat one thing - please be courteous and respectful to Conservation Officers. They have a tough job to do under super limited resources.

[dartag]

I think I've said enough already on this topic over the years so for now (only ) to save everyone some time, I'll only repeat one thing - please be courteous and respectful to Conservation Officers. They have a tough job to do under super limited resources.

And they have a gun...

[Skulley]

Geez, I am sure sick of this topic.  If we could expend all the energy that we do talking about it on this forum and use that same energy to try to change the law, we could probably succeed.  I would like to have some one who actually got a ticket to post here.  Other wise it is just here say and nothing more.  Mr. Nolan who started this post should have better info before he makes any statements on the subject.  Look at the subject line of the post.  Then in the first line of the post he said "he heard".  I hear a lot of things too.  Like just recently I posted about Homeland Security was taking over the hot pond area to protect the plant from terrorists.  That rumor has been going on since Homeland Security was formed.  I posted that because my source was somewhat credible, however a more credible source in my opinion came forward and said maybe yes and maybe no.  Turned out to be the resurfacing of the old rumor.  Oh well.  

So is the DNR really giving tickets or is Mr. Nolan only speculating that the DNR is giving tickets.    And I would like to know who Mr. Nolan heard that from and did his source get a ticket.  Until someone steps forward, all it can be is here say.  Just like the hot pond is going to be protected by Homeland Security.  Here say and nothing more.  Nothing more than rumors.  Just my 3 cents.    I am going to wait until I get a ticket or Homeland Security stops me from fishing there.  Until I have a personal experience, I am going to treat it as nothing more than here say.  Geez, I am sick of this subject.  Did I say I was sick of this subject??    

And they have a gun...

And a lot of us have guns too........so what.  I have a concealed weapons permit so I can carry mine too.  And do you really think they are going to pull it on you for getting a ticket.  I am with DK, they are the law and we should respect them no matter what.


BD                              

[fuzzygrub1611]

 BD are you sick of this subject?

[djkimmel]

I think he needs to go fishing. Just my opinion.

I'm sure Mike had as much credibility behind his reason for bringing this up as many other topics that are brought up. I stopped the other post because I didn't want members sniping at each other so lets not get started now. No sense in making it personal. Many of us bring up topics less popular with others and there's a right way and a wrong way to approach it. Singling another member out and insinuating they don't have the right to start a topic is the wrong way.

[dartag]

sorry BD was only trying to make a funny.  (I will refrain next time ).

The lake I live on must be open season.  I have seen more fishing boats out this year than any other. 

only 13 days to go.

[Skulley]

BD are you sick of this subject?

Yes.

I think he needs to go fishing. Just my opinion.

I'm sure Mike had as much credibility behind his reason for bringing this up as many other topics that are brought up. I stopped the other post because I didn't want members sniping at each other so lets not get started now. No sense in making it personal. Many of us bring up topics less popular with others and there's a right way and a wrong way to approach it. Singling another member out and insinuating they don't have the right to start a topic is the wrong way.

Yes.

sorry BD was only trying to make a funny.  (I will refrain next time ).

The lake I live on must be open season.  I have seen more fishing boats out this year than any other.  

only 13 days to go.

I knew you were Steve.  I am sorry I made it sound so serious.  Did I say how sick I am of this subject.

I have seen them give tickets to the people up on the fishing docks.  I have never ever seen them in a boat approaching any fisherman in boats.  I have been going in there to fish for 20 some years.

I apologize to all for sounding too serious.  I need to go fishing before my brain explodes.       Going to the river Friday on my day off to get some walleye for Good Friday dinner.    



BD                            

[bob620]

Gentleman,I was out pike fishing with the Legend of Lake St. Clair a few yrs ago.Bob Brunner and I watched a DNR boat going to every boat in the bay, around Selfridge.They ended up coming over to us and looked what rods and tackle we had on.They seen my musky net and said they could tell we were not bass fishing.I asked if they had caught anybody bass fishing today,and they said yes and some people were ticketed.What is funny,I was throwing a 3/4 oz rattletrap and was catching a lot of different species of fish including bass.I also got the biggest musky I've caught on the rattletrap. Some baits are just multi species type baits,what is a guy to do,makes You feel like a criminal.I'm glad the weather has not been that good,it keeps us criminals off the water.



                                                           bob620

[jgip087]

I have asked the DNR about this topic a couple of times and this is what I was told happens on inland lakes. I have also seen individuals ticketed in 3 counties for targeting bass before the season before but all of the guys were throwing blade baits to deep schooled fish.

1. The DNR will respond if individuals complain of you fishing out of season.
2. To prove you are targeting bass they have to observe you catching fish, mostly they do this from a distance. They base their decision on the number of fish you are catching of a particular species. For example, if you catch 10 bass and nothing else you're toast. The only other way you get in trouble is admitting to it.

[yukonjack2]

I am not going to add to the madness.  I will say though if you  are not happy with the current regulations, the best way to get them changed is through grassroots organizations like the federations.  Join which one feels right to you and with your financial and time support can have a positive effect on regulation changes.  Consider this prior to just griping about it.

[motocross269]

I think I've said enough already on this topic over the years so for now (only ) to save everyone some time, I'll only repeat one thing - please be courteous and respectful to Conservation Officers. They have a tough job to do under super limited resources.

I think most of us that are pushing the big "50" will agree on one thing....The DNR must be doing something right because the Tournament bags and fishing for "Most" species is better than it has ever been.....(I know there has been a host of other cotributing factors like Water quality and forage)
I remember when a 15-17lb smallie bag was pretty huge....

[peters_skeeter]

Is it illegal to fish for bass in Ohio before the last Friday in June on lake Erie? The regulation states that it is illegal to possess from May 1 till the last Friday in June. Does that mean it's legal for catch and release? 

[fasttrack]

I have asked the DNR about this topic a couple of times and this is what I was told happens on inland lakes. I have also seen individuals ticketed in 3 counties for targeting bass before the season before but all of the guys were throwing blade baits to deep schooled fish.

1. The DNR will respond if individuals complain of you fishing out of season.
2. To prove you are targeting bass they have to observe you catching fish, mostly they do this from a distance. They base their decision on the number of fish you are catching of a particular species. For example, if you catch 10 bass and nothing else you're toast. The only other way you get in trouble is admitting to it.

Guess I'm safe then! I WISH I could catch 10 bass - or did you mean 10 for the season? They'll get tired of following me around for weeks/months!! (LOL)

[josh617]

hey peter, it s catch and release in ohio on erie from may 1 to the end of June, catch and keep anytime outside of that.

[ROI Outdoors]

CATCH & RELEASE promotion from tournament fishing, DK's Seasonal push, and education through promotion are reasons we see improving Bass fishing in Michigan.  Whether you like it or not WFN, NBAA, KBLA, ESPN and Ryan Said are all reasons we have seen improved fishing - not one or the other but all of them promote Catch and Release which is why it is better than it used to be.  It isn't the DNR or some earth-shattering regulatory change it is simply because a bunch of dudes that love to whack bass grabbed the headlines and continue to do so more and more everyday.

As far as our state we do not have a Bass Management or Regulatory Policy so let's start being honest about that - now what would our Bass populations be like if we actually did have a proactive economical conservatory approach like some other states do?  Take Texas for example - Share-A-Lunker works pretty good last time I checked.  Southern states have MUCH MUCH MORE pressure, drastically warmer water temperatures, forage scarcity, and they still manage to have 100's of tournaments all year long without decimating their populations of adult bass.  Add in the fact that they fish a majority of the major tourneys during the spawning periods and we've got a recipe for nullifying every single preconceived notion ever thought of up here.  So what's the hold up? 

I've heard multiple arguments as to why we are stuck in the dark ages but not a single one that really holds up.  The growing season is longer in the southern regions - yes it is and that's just great for them; but that longer growing season = a longer mortality season.  I'd take a shorter growing season over a longer one just for the decreased mortality alone.  I'm perfectly cool with having 20 4-6lb bass per acre vs. a 10 and 2 8's per acre any day of year.  I think my biggest problem with the whole situation is the fact that we have been given something no one else in the world will ever have yet we seem to be scared to harness our geographical blessings so we squander the time away arguing about whether or not it's kosher to drive our truck and boat (which we paid for, then buy the gas at the local Speedway that hasn't seen a truck and boat since September, buy a snickers and a Gatorade, powerade, or vitamin water all the while not forgetting that we already purchased our fishing license earlier to then proceed to the lake to Catch Bass & then RELEASE them back in the water to swim away and be the little economic stimulator's of mother nature that they are.  Speedway, Dodge, Toyota, GM, Platinum Equity, Mars & Company, Gatorade, 50-Cent, and the guy you gave some change too sure did appreciate your visit and your money so why can't the state....After all every little purchase you just made had State Sales Tax included so what gives?  I guess it's the fact that our state doesn't really need any economic growth - let alone any ALL-NATURAL RESOURCES COMPLETLY FREE AT NO COST ECONOMIC GROWTH.  I mean it makes complete sense to protect something that's not protected and quite frankly will never need protection as long as we all do what we do the right way; after all whether you are a fish for fun CIR anti-tournament type or the most avid tournament angler I'm pretty sure you'd like to keep the fun as fun as possible.  I used to see a lot guys keeping bass just 6-7 years ago; now it seems like I've got to go up Irons in Lake County to see someone fishing for bass to eat - point is times have changed so it's about time we adapt to that change.

Tournaments promote Catch & Release, catch and release fishing is catch and release fishing.  Going back to the Law of the Land I would presume that catch, picture, and release is not following the law to the letter during the Catch and Immediate Release Season so if you take a picture you do not respect the law???  And if you weigh it on your Rapala scale, then take a picture you should be deported to Libya to work as a human shield in front of Qaddafi's vacation home.....I'm being sarcastic when I say that but let's just stop with the "technicalities" whether it's catch and immediate release or catch and delayed release it's catch and release.  The beauty of the early season argument is that during the "closed" period for tourneys up here the water temps are optimal for fish to have the best possible chance of surviving.....But it's OK to have tourneys when the waters 82 and the only safe place for a bass is under the hundreds of waverunners and pleasure crafts flying over their heads nonstop.  Let us not forget about all the EXCELLENT weed control that occurs during the "Season" - that's a much better environment to go out and catch fish in because the Bass are like Johnny Depp in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas from all the chemicals.  It must be much better to fish for Bass right after they spray on top of the spawning bluegill, crappie, and bass - better than catching a bass in 55 degree super clean super oxygenated water I guess..........

"As long as you don't admit it" - feels like we're stealing or something............................

[motocross269]

ROI...You have to remember that we tournament bass fisherman make up a VERY small part of the total fisherman on any body of water....I would be willing to bet I could stand at any launch on most weekends and ask the anglers launching how many have heard of NBAA, PAA, TBF, Ryan Said, or KVD for that matter it would be less than 25 percent....Heck in Michigan probably less than 25 percent of the boats launcing are targeting bass exclusively.....
In those southern states Bass are pretty much "THE" gamefish....Not so much in Michigan..As we all know there is a huge stocking program for Walleye, Trout, salmon etc...Not so much for bass...Obviously the DNR with funding restrictions looks to give the most anglers the most bang for their buck...Bass probably isn't on the top of their list as a priority..
I remember in Redman tournaments 10-12 pound bags taking home the first place trophy..Things have improved 100 percent over those days since I got back into this sport a few years ago...
Remember the 5-6 lb smallies that we see on LSC are over 10 years old...It takes years to see those types of results...Longer than most of the organizations and individuals that you have cited have been on the scene....I do agree 100 percent that catch and release education has had alot to do with the improvements...Heck even Walleye anglers are releasing some fish now...
I look at it this way...I have yet to meet a wealthy officer from the DNR...Most are underpaid for their level of education and responsibility and most are avid outdoorsman themselves...I see nothing for them to gain by being complacent with the resource that keeps them employed.....JMHO

[thedude]

# of fish doesn't matter - maybe thats the threshold a CO uses before intervening but it still wouldn't hold up in court. The court goes by the law and the law says "attempt to take". There is no way to prove it short of a CO watching you try to catch a fish off a bed. Fish all live in the same water and no one single bait only catches 1 species of fish. Reasonable doubt gets murderers a walk - when you hold up the packaging for the bait you were using and it has 20 species of fish listed on it.... that to me screams REASONABLE DOUBT.

Remember, innocent until proven guilty. Outward appearances may imply intent - Bass boat, bass rods/gear etc - however - if I am a bass fisherman, it stands to reason that this is just the gear i own. I don't have special non-bass gear for dogfish or crappies to use from ice out until may 1 only.  I do know that i can catch both in the same places and on the same baits as bass however - so there's really no reason for me to NOT be attempting to catch those species, regardless of what it looks like i'm doing.

Anyone see the WGFS episode where they are catching kings in milwaukee harbor on pointers using spinning gear? I could go sit in the piers around muskegon lake and fish for kings. Throw cranks  or body baits in the rivers for steelhead and catch just as many smallies "by accident".

The law is only enforceable if its never challenged or there is flagrant violation - ie fish in the well.

Reminds me of high school - I got pulled over for "Almost running a stop sign" (officer's words) once when i was a kid..... "almost" might give the law probable cause, but it certainly doesn't PROVE anything.

[Frank]

Maybe its just easier to pretend they didnt see me trying to catch, and release a bass than it it is for them to actually change the law. 
just a thought.

Frank

[djkimmel]

There are more bass anglers in Michigan than any other type of angler according to US Fish and Wildlife surveys done every few years - 400,000 in the last survey. Been that way for as far back as I have the reports for.

For smallmouth bass, 3 good year classes out of every 10 years is about all that is needed to have a good, sustaining population, and is considered about average in most studies I have read that talk about bass population.

Bass are not a top priority to the MDNR for two reasons and really, only the first one matters. This is straight from a number of Michigan fish biologists and researchers I have talked to about the topic over the years - "bass pretty much take care of themselves." And the second reason is - probably because of the first reason - bass anglers don't pester the MDNR much about stocking and similar things compared to the other, less numerous, types of anglers.

Really, if you take care of the water quality and habitat, most of the time, you'll have good bass populations when you look over a period of 5 to 10 years at a time. The populations do go up and down naturally, mostly due to Mother Nature - things no more in our control than a tornado or an earthquake.

Bass pretty much take care of themselves.

[Skulley]

I got an email from the tournament director of the All-Star Anglers Trail that goes out of Erie Metro Park.  He told me that the MDNR is ticketing anglers for targeting bass.  He told me that some of the guys from Ohio that come up and fish his trail have gotten tickets for targeting bass.  The MDNR is in a boat and staging just inside the entrance to the Hot Pond.  They are recording MC numbers of boats that are going into the area.  They use binoculars to scout out the anglers in the pond and if they see these anglers catching bass they record the MC number and stop the anglers when they are leaving the hot pond.  Several Ohio anglers have been ticketed.  I have not heard nor has he heard of any Michigan anglers getting tickets.  So I have to wonder if they are getting tickets for targeting bass or getting tickets for not having a Michigan non-resident fishing license.  Now the tournament director said it was targeting bass, based on phone calls he has received from these Ohio anglers.  So the question is, have any Michigan anglers been stopped, approached, ticketed in the Hot Pond???  Please chime in and let us know.  With the Michigan budget the way it is, I am wondering how many agents are actually on duty daily.  The Michigan State Police because of budget crunches only have 7 vehicles on duty every day for the whole state.  I got that bit of information from the Allen Park Police Commissioner who happens to be a close personal friend of mine.  He goes to all the meetings statewide for all police departments in Michigan.  I am sure the MDNR is going to put agents at areas that they feel could produce a good amount of revenue.  The Hot Pond would be one of those places.  So again, has anyone received a ticket for targeting bass at the Hot Pond??


BD